From: Narasimha P.V.R. Rao <pvr@charter.net>
Date: 2009/5/29 * * *
Date: 2009/5/29
Namaste friends,
> Ramakrishna Paramahamsa compared the results of past actions to be like
> a rope tied around the neck of a goat. Free will is restricted to the
> amount of freedom the rope allows one.
> a rope tied around the neck of a goat. Free will is restricted to the
> amount of freedom the rope allows one.
Ramakrishna is a master of explaining the toughest of philosophical points using the simplest of analogies. His analogies are usually quite apt and brilliant.
Yes, karma or destiny (i.e. the result of past actions) is like a rope tied to the neck of a goat. The rope restricts the movement of the goat, but does not determine where the goat goes and what it does! That is upto the goat's free will.
A thirsty goat may look at a river nearby and despair as it cannot reach the river due to the rope. It may try and struggle continually, without reaching the river. Another thirsty goat may realize that it cannot reach the river, accept that, look around, find a small bucket of water behind it within reach if it negotiates with the rope and the obstacles. It may turn back, go, drink that water in the bucket and be happy.
While the destiny as frozen at the time of birth (and as reflected in the horoscope) is like the rope tying the goat and the surroundings of the goat, the actions of free will after birth are like the actions of the goat - how it accepts and negotiates the rope and its surroundings to get what it wants.
* * *
Today's actions (karma) are tomorrow's destiny (karma). Some of today's actions may impact destiny in a future life. Some of today's actions may modify destiny for tomorrow (in this life itself!). Let me extend Ramakrishna's analogy to explain it.
A goat tied to a tree with a rope may go around the tree a few times in one direction and the rope may get shorter. It may now be unable to reach places it was able to reach earlier. Similarly, some bad acts of free will in this life may tighten the destiny, make things worse and reduce one's options.
It may go around the tree a few times in another direction and the rope may get longer. It may now be able to reach places it was unable to reach earlier. Similarly, some good acts of free will in this life may improve the destiny and make more things possible.
One's mind is conditioned based on one's destiny. One's surroundings and life situations faced by one are influenced by one's destinty. One will be pulled in certain directions. One may feel attraction for another person. Another person may hate one an, abuse one and throw obstacles. One may not have enough money to live happily. One may be adored by millions of people. And so on. One faces different life situations at different times and in different matters.
However, destiny only shows how one (and one's mind) is pulled in various directions and what life situations one finds oneself in. Irrespective of the mental conditioning and one's circumstances, one can still choose between different actions. The actions taken by one are not fixed based on the horoscope. For example, one person may abuse one badly and one may feel great anger towards that person, all on account of a previous karmik debt. But, when badly provoked, one can either succumb to the temptation and fight back or just ignore and move on.
Destiny places you in different situations. What you do in those situations is based on how you use your free will. In some cases, free will has a lot of wiggle room and many options and, in some cases, it has fewer options. But, usually, you do have several options that may or may not be obvious and the action you finally choose shapes your destiny in a future birth.
* * *
Please note that the Sanskrit word for destiny is karma and the Sanskrit word for action is also karma. Basically, actions of today become destiny of tomorrow. You will get reaction in future to your current actions and destiny is the sum total of those actions that will come back to you.
Each action of yours that impacts other beings and objects of this universe will go towards forming your destiny for future. (Here please note that both physical and mental actions count. Any emotions you feel towards someone else and do not necessary express outwardly will also impact that person in a subtle manner and hence counts as an action.)
Horoscope captures the good and bad actions, committed physically or mentally to other beings, until the current birth, which are to give their reactions in this life. This is also known as destiny.
It does not fix what you do in various situations in your current life. You have the ability to make different choices at important crossroads. The choices you make are your karma (actions) and they shape your destiny for future. They may either impact your current life itself, or become part of the destiny (as reflected in the horoscope) in the next life.
* * *
Anybody who tells you that so and so houses show acts of free will does not understand what free will is. Horoscope is the frozen list of past karmas that form one's destiny for this life. It is like the rope tying the goat. Acts of free will are like how the goat negotiates the rope and moves around within the possible area to do its stuff. That is in the hands of the goat.
The scope and options available to free will can be estimated from the horoscope, but the exact acts of free will are unpredictable based on horoscope. To complicate things further, how exactly free will has been used until now in this life (which cannot be seen from the horoscope) has an impact on the scope and options available to free will at this time. The exertion of free will until now may have modified the destiny.
* * *
I am not downplaying astrology. Going back to the original Chiranjeevi prediction, the prediction that he would come into politics in 2007-2009 and enjoy some kind of power was made using astrology. When someone is already a candidate, even a random prediction of success or failure has a 1/2 or 1/3 probability. But, when there are no signs on the ground, a prediction on one's political entry in a specific timeframe has a very low probability. Such a low probability prediction made 7 years ahead using astrology came true. Moreover, we have all seen many cases where astrology worked spectacularly. I am not saying astrology is nonsense. But I am saying that we do not attempt to understand its shortcomings.
When someone's free will works in a predictable way, i.e. when one's free will has very few options and/or one reacts to life situations thrown up by the destiny in predictable ways, job of an astrologer is easier. But, when free will has a wide range of options and/or one used the free will powerfully, the gap between the destiny as reflected by horoscope and the actual destiny as a result of those actions may make an astrologer fail.
Best regards,
Narasimha
------------------------------------------------------------------
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Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org
------------------------------------------------------------------
Narasimha
------------------------------------------------------------------
Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam
Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/tarpana
Spirituality: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vedic-wisdom
Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net
Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org
Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org
------------------------------------------------------------------
> --- On Wed, 5/27/09, Shyam V. Srivatsa <shyam.srivatsa@...> wrote:
>
> From: Shyam V. Srivatsa <shyam.srivatsa@...>
> Subject: Re: [sohamsa] Re: Horoscope, free will and high profile charts (Re: Your prediction on Chiranjeevi)
> To: sohamsa@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Wednesday, May 27, 2009, 11:08 AM
>
> Namaste!
>
> Ramakrishna Paramahamsa compared the results of past actions to be like
> a rope tied around the neck of a goat. Free will is restricted to the
> amount of freedom the rope allows one. As one burns more of past karma,
> it is like the rope being loosened and the freedom given increases.
> Ultimately we are all bound by the power of prakriti or maya as one
> chooses to call it.
>
> In psychological terms, ones own thought structures are the rope that
> ties us. Our own conditioned mind restricts us. What a horoscope reveals
> in this sense is often the ropes that bind us. The grace of Guru and the
> power of sadhana burn away these ropes/sanchita karma.
>
> Regards,
>
> Shyam
>
> On Wed, 2009-05-27 at 13:38 +0530, Sanjay Prabhakaran wrote:
> >
> > || Om Gurave Namah ||
> > Dear Srinivasa,
> > Let me give my opinion,
> > Upachaaya houses 3,6,10 and 11 are for free will. Upachaaya means to
> > increase or grow. These houses can increase your level of karma. Most
> > of the houses are considered bad (except 10th) by Parashara. Hence we
> > should try to limit our free will for loading our karma baggage.
> >
> > 3rd House : Kaama or passion related karmas.
> > 11th house: Desire or Wants related karmas.
> > 6th house: Hatred, revenge etc.
> >
> > All the above are one of prime causes of increasing karma. Look at the
> > grahas in above places to see how many factors are forcing you to
> > indulge in those karmas. Malefics generally add more negative karma.
> >
> > 3rd house remedy is best to take Guru Upadesha (7th from 3rd is 9th
> > house).
> > 11th house worship Shiva
> > 6th House worship Vishnu.
> >
> > Warm Regards
> > Sanjay P
>
> --- In sohamsa@yahoogroups.com, Srinivasa Sunchu <padmanu@> wrote:
> >
> > Om Vishnave Namah
> >
> > Namasthe Narasimha Garu
> >
> > Is there a way or techniques to quantitatively and accurately ascertain how much is the
> > destiny/baggage part and the free will part.
> > May be this is where modern day astrologers are lagging?
> >
> > Srinivasa
> >
> > --- On Tue, 5/26/09, Narasimha P.V.R. Rao <pvr@> wrote:
> > Namaste,
> >
> > > > how do we know that free will exists?.The so called free will can also
> > > > be an asumption.As far as my experience goes whatever freewill existed
> > > > for humans might have exited.I know majority will never agree but
> > > > still......
> >
> > Well, free will DOES exist. In fact, what exactly is destiny anyway? There is no destiny if there is no free will, for today's act of free will shapes tomorrow's destiny.
> >
> > In fact, Vasishtha tells Rama in "Yoga Vaasishtham" that there is nothing called destiny. He says all that is there is your free will. He says that actions done in the past using your free will will catch up with you and that catching up is given the name of destiny. This destiny is thus nothing external, but acts of your own free will getting back at you.
> >
> > Just as a person who spends all his monthly salary in the first 10 days of the month may have no money to spend in the next 20 days, similarly people who abused their free will in the past may be faced with such a weighty destiny that their free will is useless right now. Such people may feel that there is nothing called free will.
> >
> > The amount of leeway and wiggle room available for free may may vary from person to person and situation to situation, but it is a fact that free will exists and that acts of free will shape one's future.
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Narasimha
> >
> > > --- In JyotishGroup@ yahoogroups. com, "gopi_b927" <gopi_b927@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Narasimha garu,
> > > >
> > > > how do we know that free will exists?.The so called free will can also
> > > > be an asumption.As far as my experience goes whatever freewill existed
> > > > for humans might have exited.I know majority will never agree but
> > > > still......
> > > > --- In JyotishGroup@ yahoogroups. com, "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr@>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Namaste,
> > > > >
> > > > > I will share some freewheeling thoughts, in response to your question.
> > > > I am cc'ing this to some astrology lists after removing your name from
> > > > the mail.
> > > > >
> > > > > * * *
> > > > >
> > > > > For those who are unaware of the prediction referred to below, here is
> > > > a little background.
> > > > >
> > > > > I had predicted in print in 2000 that Telugu film actor Chiranjeevi
> > > > would come into politics in 2007-2009 and and enjoy some political
> > > > power. At the time of that prediction, there were no such indications on
> > > > the ground. But he did come into politics in the same timeframe. The
> > > > initial talk was in 2007, he finally formed a party in 2008 and
> > > > elections were in 2009. Though his party did badly, he was elected as a
> > > > legislator (MLA) in May 2009.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thus, the original prediction was quite successful. However, I upped
> > > > the ante last year by suggesting that Chiranjeevi' s party would do well
> > > > in 2009 elections. Though I was not specific regarding his level of
> > > > success and did not predict that he would become the Chief Minister, I
> > > > was honestly expecting his party to do better than they managed. Thus,
> > > > the followup of my original prediction is a failure.
> > > > >
> > > > > * * *
> > > > >
> > > > > It is my personal observation that the success rate in high profile
> > > > political predictions is less than in regular predictions like marriage,
> > > > job, childbirth etc in "regular" charts.
> > > > >
> > > > > In some cases, the reason is that the birthdata is not accurate and
> > > > yet we are eager to make predictions. But sometimes we make bad
> > > > predictions with good data too. Of course, it can be a human error in
> > > > judging various factors. However, that human error seems to be a little
> > > > more common in high profile political predictions than in regular
> > > > predictions. What could be the reason?
> > > > >
> > > > > I wonder if the factor of free will that is left out of astrology
> > > > plays a bigger role in political charts. I will try to think loud and
> > > > elaborate what I mean.
> > > > >
> > > > > * * *
> > > > >
> > > > > One's birth chart contains the list of actions committed in previous
> > > > lives using one's free will that are to give their reactions in this
> > > > life. However, as life goes on, one accumulates newer actions committed
> > > > in THIS life using one's free will. What happens at any point of time in
> > > > one's life is a function of ALL actions committed by one until that
> > > > point of time, INCLUDING the actions committed in THIS life until now.
> > > > Some key actions committed using one's free will in THIS life,
> > > > especially at important crossroads in life, should impact the life
> > > > events from then onwards.
> > > > >
> > > > > Many people are weighed down by too many karmas and always playing a
> > > > catchup. In other words, destiny (sum of the actions of previous lives
> > > > which are to give a reaction now) is too weighty and free will in this
> > > > life has little scope. When the options available for the free will in
> > > > this life are limited, there may not be significant actions using free
> > > > will and hence the modifications to destiny based on actions of this
> > > > life may not be big enough. Thus, horoscope may be sufficient to predict
> > > > events.
> > > > >
> > > > > However, highly popular, successful and high profile public
> > > > personalities may have less restrictions and more options available for
> > > > their free will. With their free will being more free and powerful, the
> > > > actions committed by their free will may have a higher weightage. As we
> > > > are able to see only their destiny in the horoscope (free will exercise
> > > > upto birth) and unable to factor in how free will was exercised in this
> > > > life until now, we are perhaps handicapped in our predictions.
> > > > >
> > > > > Whether a political leader is in limelight and becomes MP or the
> > > > leader of opposition in parliament or the Prime Minister, he is enjoying
> > > > some political power. Previous karmas placed him in a position to enjoy
> > > > that power. To predict the specific degree of power and make an accurate
> > > > prediction, is the horoscope sufficient always? Could the exercise of
> > > > free will in this life until now make a difference in some high profile
> > > > charts?
> > > > >
> > > > > * * *
> > > > >
> > > > > I am just thinking loud here. Rather than posing a question and
> > > > answering it myself, I will let learned friends ponder on this for
> > > > themselves.. .
> > > > >
> > > > > Best regards,
> > > > > Narasimha
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > Dear PVR garu,
> > > > >
> > > > > Namaste.
> > > > >
> > > > > If you don't mind, could you please look in to why your prediction on
> > > > Chiranjeevi failed ?
> > > > >
> > > > > I am not asking this question with a wrong intent. I wanted to
> > > > understand if
> > > > > 1) It is a human error (May be you ignored some data ? )
> > > > > 2) You still can't understand why it failed and you think that was the
> > > > correct prediction to be best of your knowledge.
> > > > >
> > > > > I had a 50-50 faith on astrology 3 years ago and after coming to know
> > > > about you / your lessons I developed strong faith and I thought all the
> > > > failures are not because of astrology but because of astrologer's lack
> > > > of knowledge.
> > > > >
> > > > > If it is case #1, it is okay. But if it is case #2, then we have a
> > > > problem. We will have to conclude that the Jyotish knowledge that is
> > > > available to us at this age is very limited and may not be accurate.
> > > > >
> > > > > Best Regards,
> > > > > <deleted>
>
> From: Shyam V. Srivatsa <shyam.srivatsa@...>
> Subject: Re: [sohamsa] Re: Horoscope, free will and high profile charts (Re: Your prediction on Chiranjeevi)
> To: sohamsa@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Wednesday, May 27, 2009, 11:08 AM
>
> Namaste!
>
> Ramakrishna Paramahamsa compared the results of past actions to be like
> a rope tied around the neck of a goat. Free will is restricted to the
> amount of freedom the rope allows one. As one burns more of past karma,
> it is like the rope being loosened and the freedom given increases.
> Ultimately we are all bound by the power of prakriti or maya as one
> chooses to call it.
>
> In psychological terms, ones own thought structures are the rope that
> ties us. Our own conditioned mind restricts us. What a horoscope reveals
> in this sense is often the ropes that bind us. The grace of Guru and the
> power of sadhana burn away these ropes/sanchita karma.
>
> Regards,
>
> Shyam
>
> On Wed, 2009-05-27 at 13:38 +0530, Sanjay Prabhakaran wrote:
> >
> > || Om Gurave Namah ||
> > Dear Srinivasa,
> > Let me give my opinion,
> > Upachaaya houses 3,6,10 and 11 are for free will. Upachaaya means to
> > increase or grow. These houses can increase your level of karma. Most
> > of the houses are considered bad (except 10th) by Parashara. Hence we
> > should try to limit our free will for loading our karma baggage.
> >
> > 3rd House : Kaama or passion related karmas.
> > 11th house: Desire or Wants related karmas.
> > 6th house: Hatred, revenge etc.
> >
> > All the above are one of prime causes of increasing karma. Look at the
> > grahas in above places to see how many factors are forcing you to
> > indulge in those karmas. Malefics generally add more negative karma.
> >
> > 3rd house remedy is best to take Guru Upadesha (7th from 3rd is 9th
> > house).
> > 11th house worship Shiva
> > 6th House worship Vishnu.
> >
> > Warm Regards
> > Sanjay P
>
> --- In sohamsa@yahoogroups.com, Srinivasa Sunchu <padmanu@> wrote:
> >
> > Om Vishnave Namah
> >
> > Namasthe Narasimha Garu
> >
> > Is there a way or techniques to quantitatively and accurately ascertain how much is the
> > destiny/baggage part and the free will part.
> > May be this is where modern day astrologers are lagging?
> >
> > Srinivasa
> >
> > --- On Tue, 5/26/09, Narasimha P.V.R. Rao <pvr@> wrote:
> > Namaste,
> >
> > > > how do we know that free will exists?.The so called free will can also
> > > > be an asumption.As far as my experience goes whatever freewill existed
> > > > for humans might have exited.I know majority will never agree but
> > > > still......
> >
> > Well, free will DOES exist. In fact, what exactly is destiny anyway? There is no destiny if there is no free will, for today's act of free will shapes tomorrow's destiny.
> >
> > In fact, Vasishtha tells Rama in "Yoga Vaasishtham" that there is nothing called destiny. He says all that is there is your free will. He says that actions done in the past using your free will will catch up with you and that catching up is given the name of destiny. This destiny is thus nothing external, but acts of your own free will getting back at you.
> >
> > Just as a person who spends all his monthly salary in the first 10 days of the month may have no money to spend in the next 20 days, similarly people who abused their free will in the past may be faced with such a weighty destiny that their free will is useless right now. Such people may feel that there is nothing called free will.
> >
> > The amount of leeway and wiggle room available for free may may vary from person to person and situation to situation, but it is a fact that free will exists and that acts of free will shape one's future.
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Narasimha
> >
> > > --- In JyotishGroup@ yahoogroups. com, "gopi_b927" <gopi_b927@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Narasimha garu,
> > > >
> > > > how do we know that free will exists?.The so called free will can also
> > > > be an asumption.As far as my experience goes whatever freewill existed
> > > > for humans might have exited.I know majority will never agree but
> > > > still......
> > > > --- In JyotishGroup@ yahoogroups. com, "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr@>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Namaste,
> > > > >
> > > > > I will share some freewheeling thoughts, in response to your question.
> > > > I am cc'ing this to some astrology lists after removing your name from
> > > > the mail.
> > > > >
> > > > > * * *
> > > > >
> > > > > For those who are unaware of the prediction referred to below, here is
> > > > a little background.
> > > > >
> > > > > I had predicted in print in 2000 that Telugu film actor Chiranjeevi
> > > > would come into politics in 2007-2009 and and enjoy some political
> > > > power. At the time of that prediction, there were no such indications on
> > > > the ground. But he did come into politics in the same timeframe. The
> > > > initial talk was in 2007, he finally formed a party in 2008 and
> > > > elections were in 2009. Though his party did badly, he was elected as a
> > > > legislator (MLA) in May 2009.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thus, the original prediction was quite successful. However, I upped
> > > > the ante last year by suggesting that Chiranjeevi' s party would do well
> > > > in 2009 elections. Though I was not specific regarding his level of
> > > > success and did not predict that he would become the Chief Minister, I
> > > > was honestly expecting his party to do better than they managed. Thus,
> > > > the followup of my original prediction is a failure.
> > > > >
> > > > > * * *
> > > > >
> > > > > It is my personal observation that the success rate in high profile
> > > > political predictions is less than in regular predictions like marriage,
> > > > job, childbirth etc in "regular" charts.
> > > > >
> > > > > In some cases, the reason is that the birthdata is not accurate and
> > > > yet we are eager to make predictions. But sometimes we make bad
> > > > predictions with good data too. Of course, it can be a human error in
> > > > judging various factors. However, that human error seems to be a little
> > > > more common in high profile political predictions than in regular
> > > > predictions. What could be the reason?
> > > > >
> > > > > I wonder if the factor of free will that is left out of astrology
> > > > plays a bigger role in political charts. I will try to think loud and
> > > > elaborate what I mean.
> > > > >
> > > > > * * *
> > > > >
> > > > > One's birth chart contains the list of actions committed in previous
> > > > lives using one's free will that are to give their reactions in this
> > > > life. However, as life goes on, one accumulates newer actions committed
> > > > in THIS life using one's free will. What happens at any point of time in
> > > > one's life is a function of ALL actions committed by one until that
> > > > point of time, INCLUDING the actions committed in THIS life until now.
> > > > Some key actions committed using one's free will in THIS life,
> > > > especially at important crossroads in life, should impact the life
> > > > events from then onwards.
> > > > >
> > > > > Many people are weighed down by too many karmas and always playing a
> > > > catchup. In other words, destiny (sum of the actions of previous lives
> > > > which are to give a reaction now) is too weighty and free will in this
> > > > life has little scope. When the options available for the free will in
> > > > this life are limited, there may not be significant actions using free
> > > > will and hence the modifications to destiny based on actions of this
> > > > life may not be big enough. Thus, horoscope may be sufficient to predict
> > > > events.
> > > > >
> > > > > However, highly popular, successful and high profile public
> > > > personalities may have less restrictions and more options available for
> > > > their free will. With their free will being more free and powerful, the
> > > > actions committed by their free will may have a higher weightage. As we
> > > > are able to see only their destiny in the horoscope (free will exercise
> > > > upto birth) and unable to factor in how free will was exercised in this
> > > > life until now, we are perhaps handicapped in our predictions.
> > > > >
> > > > > Whether a political leader is in limelight and becomes MP or the
> > > > leader of opposition in parliament or the Prime Minister, he is enjoying
> > > > some political power. Previous karmas placed him in a position to enjoy
> > > > that power. To predict the specific degree of power and make an accurate
> > > > prediction, is the horoscope sufficient always? Could the exercise of
> > > > free will in this life until now make a difference in some high profile
> > > > charts?
> > > > >
> > > > > * * *
> > > > >
> > > > > I am just thinking loud here. Rather than posing a question and
> > > > answering it myself, I will let learned friends ponder on this for
> > > > themselves.. .
> > > > >
> > > > > Best regards,
> > > > > Narasimha
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > Dear PVR garu,
> > > > >
> > > > > Namaste.
> > > > >
> > > > > If you don't mind, could you please look in to why your prediction on
> > > > Chiranjeevi failed ?
> > > > >
> > > > > I am not asking this question with a wrong intent. I wanted to
> > > > understand if
> > > > > 1) It is a human error (May be you ignored some data ? )
> > > > > 2) You still can't understand why it failed and you think that was the
> > > > correct prediction to be best of your knowledge.
> > > > >
> > > > > I had a 50-50 faith on astrology 3 years ago and after coming to know
> > > > about you / your lessons I developed strong faith and I thought all the
> > > > failures are not because of astrology but because of astrologer's lack
> > > > of knowledge.
> > > > >
> > > > > If it is case #1, it is okay. But if it is case #2, then we have a
> > > > problem. We will have to conclude that the Jyotish knowledge that is
> > > > available to us at this age is very limited and may not be accurate.
> > > > >
> > > > > Best Regards,
> > > > > <deleted>
