Friday, April 29, 2005

Houses in Divisional Charts

Shri PVR Narasimha Rao

> Dear PVR,
> I would love to see this issue clarified. I think Vijayadas has
> perhaps not clearly conveyed to you what he wants to say. He wants the
> exact and unambiguous proof that Parashar instructs us to construct D-
> n CHARTS. If Parasara says "see parents in Dwadasamsa", why is the
> only logical possibility that you have to construct a new D-12 chart
> in which you nominate the house 1 of the chart as the zodiacal sign
> associated with the Dwadasamsa occupied by the Lagna in D-1 and use
> that NEW chart's 4th and 9th houses? Why not simply consider strengths
> and weaknesses of the D-1 chart's 4th and 9th house lords' Dwadasamsas?
> All this confusion could be easily removed if you would show one place
> in classical texts where it says effectively (for example) "construct
> a Navamsha CHART by taking the zodiacal sign associated with the
> Navamsha position of Lagna in Rasi chart and make that sign the first
> house in the Navamsha CHART"... or some such thing. Otherwise, he (VP)
> is correct (IMHO), it is not logically obvious from the 2 statements
> you cite.
> Sundeep

Let me throw back the question to you: Did Parasara explicitly teach that houses should NOT be taken in navamsa?

I never volunteered to offer a proof that houses can be taken in navamsa.

Given that a significant percentage of elders take houses in navamsa and Pradeep's position of NOT taking houses in navamsa is an extreme one, I'd place the burden of proof on him. He would need a strong reason to reject houses in navamsa. I have not seen any strong reasons presented. All I have seen is accusations of "deformed basics" of others and some incomprehensible points like "tampering" with planetary positions.

If Saturn is in Libra in rasi chart, Saturn is exalted in rasi chart. If Saturn is in at 11 deg in Cancer, he is not in his exaltation sign. But we take Saturn to be exalted in navamsa (including Pradeep). That is because Saturn would be in Libra in navamsa and Libra is his exaltation sign.

But if lagna is in Virgo in navamsa in this case and I say that Saturn is in the 2nd house from lagna in navamsa, he would object and say that these are not the same Virgo and Libra and I cannot tamper with them. He says that Saturn is actually in 10:00-13:20 in Cancer and not in Libra. But then, why can we take Saturn to be in Libra in navamsa for the purpose of checking exaltation in navamsa? If it is not the the same Libra, why take Saturn to be exalted there? Why is it "not the same Libra" for counting signs and "the same old Libra" for
checking exaltation? I see totally inconsistent thinking and in fact don't get Pradeep's objections. With that kind of thinking, I am shocked that he has the guts to accuse others of "deformed basics".

If Pradeep's point is that he will not take houses in navamsa because Parasara did not explicitly grant it, I can respect that view and move on. But he is making a lot of points to show why he is right and others have "deformed basics" and I am afraid I do not understand his points.

BTW, if you want to stop taking exaltation signs etc in navamsa and other divisions, you will be in clear contradiction of Parasara, as he clearly mentioned exaltation in divisions. So that is not an option!

I do not see any logical and consistent points in Pradeep's objection and hence cannot engage in a discussion with him. I have spent a lot of time on him this time and during previous times. In my judgment, it is a waste of my time to engage any further with him. If you understand his arguments, you please engage him.

When I first made the point about twins, Pradeep said that lagna in divisions could be used to differentiate twins. When houses were not taken from lagna in divisions, I could not understand what he was saying. I was hoping he would explain how he would use lagna in divisions to distinguish between twins in the example I gave, but he has evaded it.

You are welcome to draw your conclusions and use the approach that your intellect finds acceptable. But I argue that there is no way to distinguish between twins and closely born people without considering houses in navamsa and other divisions. I will not say that this is "proof" of my approach. But, to me, this is a motivation to stick to the approach taught bny tradition.

Parasara did mention houses from the amsa of atma karaka and the amsa of lagna. It strongly suggests to me that houses can be taken in amsas. But, again, I want to clarify that I never offered a "proof".

May Jupiter's light shine on us,

Wednesday, April 27, 2005

Dr. BV Ramans' Techniques

By PVR Narasimha Rao
Dear Vinay,

> >>>Different people operate under different
> >>>circumstances and their contributions cannot be
> >>>compared. Also, in my opinion, nobody can come close
> >>>to Dr Raman's contributions. He belongs to a different
> >>>level, like Varahamihira.
> Dear Narasimha,
> I differ in my views on Dr.Raman. Raman used a wrong
> Ayanamsha, (that invariably changed the Navamsha
> lagna, navamsha position of planets) and sometimes did

I too personally do not use Raman ayanamsa. I use Lahiri ayanamsa and believe it has only a small error. But, in the absence of a conclusive proof of the correct ayanamsa, scholars are free to use what they like. Dr Raman, Krishnamoorthy, Swami Sadashiva Giri, Swami Yukteshwar's followers all have their own favorite ayanamsas. You can fault anyone for following what they prefer.

> not even advocate the use of Navamsha chart. He
> suggested that the Navamsha chart could be shelved if
> a planet was strong in the rashi chart. I hear that

There are people today shelving shashtyamsa chart. I don't see any difference between shelving navamsa and shelving shashtyamsa.

> even today his children faithfully use his Ayanamsha.

What's wrong with it?

I use Lahiri ayanamsa and used it in all my articles published in "Astrological Magazine". They never held it against me and published my articles. When they respect my decision to use Lahiri ayanamsa, I respect their decision to use Raman ayanamsa.

> A pity. He rarely used other divisional charts like
> D-10 etc. Raman used nothing other than the
> Vimshottari Dasha for predictions. I wonder how he
> could give sound predictions with such techniques.

That is the beauty! He gave sound predictions for several decades.

Though he used what was convenient to him, he was never against the use of D-10 etc. Nor was he against the use of other dasas. He respected other views and especially those who had allegiance to maharshis. As an individual teacher, he had the freedom to focus on what worked for him and what was convenient to him. I will not blame him for exercising that freedom.

Just before he passed away, I was invited to send an article and sent one containing my researches on D-27 and received his blessings in a letter. He said he was happy to see youngsters engaged in serious astrology research and gave me his encouragement and blessings. The article was published in the last "Astrological Magazine" that he edited (January 1999 issue). It was my first published article in astrology.

How can you fault a man who encounraged others studying divisional charts for ignoring them?

Each generation discovers (or, sometimes, invents) new things. It cannot blame the previous generations for leaving those things. Each generation has a job to do.

> Unlike some of his contemporaries like Krishnamurthy
> or Sheshadri Iyer who have to their credit some
> original contributions, Raman contributed nothing
> original or new to the arsenal of astrological

When did having "original contributions" become a criterion for being a great astrology author?

If an author comes by today and translates (interprets) Parasara perfectly, I will bow to his feet. It will be the greatest contribution anybody (apart from Parasara) would've ever made to astrology!!!

Dr Raman brought the knowledge of maharshis to modern educated men. It is a far greater contribution than any original researches.

> techniques. Coming to his writings, his books "How to
> Judge a Horoscope Vol 1 and Vol 2" which I have read
> are downright badly written books according to me. I

But, countless Jyotishis learnt from those books and progressed as astrologers.

Even today, many of us consider those books the best reference book for bhava results.

> gave up reading half way. Honestly I felt that even I
> could write a book like that! He simply culled

If so, please do!!!!

> statements from classics and added them in his book
> under the relevant bhava judgment without bothering to
> explain how or why such a statement could work. A

That couldn't be more wrong. So many clear practical examples were given!

> person with no knowledge of astrology can understand
> neither head nor tail of these books. An astrologer
> who does not interpret and explain the pithy sayings
> of the classics is no great astrologer. For example
> you explain the use of Arudhas even in Divisional
> charts but explain how and why it is to be done. This
> lends credence to what you say and there is some
> chance of its acceptability. I place KN Rao on a
> higher pedestal than Dr. Raman in terms of the
> predictions given and probably even in his writings.

Well, old people like my father who followed Dr Raman for MANY DECADES tell me that he is unsurpassed in the quantity and quality of predictions. He was highly successful for several decades. Some are probably influenced by the propaganda that came after his peak years from some self-promoting savants that came after him. A Tendulkar or Sehwag cannot make you forget Bradman. When it comes to public predictions, Dr Raman is the Bradman.

In writings, I will not dare to put anybody near him. Yes, there have been more entertaining authors after him, who wrote fluffy books with a lot of style, a lot of claims and little useful substance. His books are filled with sattva guna and substance.

> But there's no doubt Raman's name will live on for a
> long time to come because of his complete dedication
> to the craft of astrology and for having the courage
> to revive a craft that was almost dead in the mid
> fifties. But to compare him to Varahamira, in my

I am glad you recognize atleast that.

> opinion, is like comparing a Viv Richards, a Sachin
> Tendulkar or a Brian Lara to any B grade batsman.
> These are just my views and we all have the right to
> have our own.

I agree. :-)

> Warm Regards,
> Vinay K

May Jupiter's light shine on us,

DR BV Ramans techniques

Bri Sri Raman Suprajarama

Dear Vinay,

I would want to bring a few points to your notice.

> Dear Narasimha,
> I differ in my views on Dr.Raman. Raman used a wrong
> Ayanamsha, (that invariably changed the Navamsha
> lagna, navamsha position of planets) and sometimes did

The question of Ayanamsa is very debatable. Geocentric system was given by Ptolemy and this was accepted as the correct system. When Copernicus gave the heliocentric system, everyone including the church condemned it. His book “De Revolutionibus” was suppressed for 13 years. It is now accepted the correct planetary system. While I am not debating on which is the correct Ayanamsa to be used, it would be in order to respect each one’s belief.

> not even advocate the use of Navamsa chart. He
> suggested that the Navamsa chart could be shelved if
> a planet was strong in the rashi chart. I hear that

The above statements are not true. Dr. Raman gave importance to the Navamsa chart. If you go through “Notable Horoscopes” by Dr. Raman, you can see how he has used the Navamsa chart in analysis and timing events. I would want to give a few lines from the talk he gave at Cambridge, England on 21 September 1970.

He said, “I should like to be somewhat prolix in my treatment of the Navamsa chart.

Its first and most important use, as I have already said, is in balancing for good or bad, the main chart so that the horoscope as a whole is assessed correctly. The most powerful Raja Yogas or combinations for royalty get tempered or even neutralized if the planets causing such Yogas are afflicted in the Navamsa. Conversely, even if the main chart is somewhat weak and the planets causing affliction are well placed in the Navamsa, the main chart secures strength”. During the usual discussions that I had with him, he always stressed on looking at the planetary placements in Navamsa chart and then draw conclusions.

> A pity. He rarely used other divisional charts like
> D-10 etc. Raman used nothing other than the
> Vimshottari Dasha for predictions. I wonder how he
> could give sound predictions with such techniques.

Dr. Raman did use divisional charts and other Dasas. If you read his book Studies in Jaimini Astrology, he has given the various Dasa systems and also examples. He said that Vimshottari Dasa was universally applicable, and if one finds it difficult to compute other Dasas, he can safely predict using this Dasa system. During our discussions of Jaimini principles, he suggested I start with Chara Dasa and Shoola Dasa for predicting general events and timing death respectively. He also suggested the use of Ashtamsa chart along with Shoola Dasa. In regard to divisional charts, this is what he wrote “The life chart or the Rasi Kundali is indeed the basic chart upon which rests all the other charts. In it is hidden all the various factors which will come to fruition in the course of the present life of an individual. But it must be dissected into other charts so that a clear history of each one of the factors of life is obtained. Quite often the evidence which seems important in the Rasi or the main chart is modified by the evidence furnished by the subsidiary chart.”

> even today his children faithfully use his Ayanamsha.

I did try using Lahiri Ayanamsa and other Ayanamsas. When I tried to analyze using Lahiri Ayanamsa, never did my grandfather or father discourage it. It was after many tests and my own understanding that I started using Raman Ayanamsa.

> Unlike some of his contemporaries like Krishnamurthy
> or Sheshadri Iyer who have to their credit some
> original contributions, Raman contributed nothing
> original or new to the arsenal of astrological

Looks like you have not read his books completely. Apart from the general combinations that are given in the classics, Dr. Raman has also given many new and different combinations. Best example would be the Longevity chapter in Hindu Predictive Astrology. In his book, How to judge earthquakes and weather, he has given different rules and methods based on his experience. The Astrological Magazine carried lot of articles giving new ideas and thoughts in regard to Mundane Astrology.

Sri Narasimha Rao has given a good reply to your other statements and I would want to leave it at that.

It is ok to bring out the negative points of a person, so as to help him, but it more important to verify the statements one makes. While false statements do not carry any weight, it could bring in bad Karma.

Om Tat Sat,

Raman Suprajarama

Tuesday, April 26, 2005

Foriegn opportunities (Travel and Home)

> What are the planet combinations that indicate oversees
> opportunities either for education or job.
> Thanks in Advance
> Raj

|| Om Gurave Namah ||
Namaste Raj,

Baadhakesh can make one travel. Baadakesh Kaaraka is Rahu hence denotes foreign.

4th is the Bhaava for home, Trines to 4th house 8th and 12th are different stations(Homes).

Loss(12th) of home(4th); 3rd is for short distance travel, 7th from it 9th is for long distance travel for Pilgrimage, Higher studies or to Seek Fortune. 4th from 9th is 12th house is your new home when travel abroad. 12th also indicates ashramas when you travel for religious purpose in 9th.

4th from 4th is 7th; 7th is another form of home and 7th can also indicate travel. Pleasure trips, business trips(10th from 10th is 7th)is indicated by 7th house.

Movement of body is another subject; It's determined by Chara, Sthira and Dwiswa Signs. They indicate change in environments. Chara long distance, sthira short distance or Dwiswa medium distance.

Residency in foreign country is a different subject; Venus is determiner for Foreign residency. As Venus is Kaaraka for patriotism. Jataka Paarijaata gives dictums like Venus influence on 12th from Lagna lord for foreign residence. In Short 12th from Lagna lord Called Vyaayapa shows countries you can travel. Malefics indicate poor countries and benefics can indicate beautiful or developed countries.

Warm Regards
Sanjay P

Hari Om Tat Sat

D-7 Case Study - Carmen's Chart

Sri Raman Suprajarama

Dear members,

I would like to give my observations. While there are many methods for determining the number of issues of a native, the most common one used is the number of expired amsas of the lord of the 5th. Any malefic amsa has to be deducted.

In the current email I will confine myself to Ashtakavarga principles. I use Raman Ayanamsa and Varahamihira’s Ashtakavarga rules.

Sri Samarth Rao has already given a good analysis. In the Prasthara Ashtakavarga, 5th house from Jupiter is stronger than 5th house form Lagna. Hence the former is considered. In the Prasthara AV of Jupiter, bindus in 5th house is due to Sun, Mars, Mercury and Venus. Any planet which is ill-placed is bad while a planet in own or exaltation sign increase the number of children. Here, Sun is debilitated and hence results in the destruction of a child. Mars is Lagna lord and well placed in 2nd resulting in gain of a child. Mercury though in a friendly sign is in a dustana. Such a combination results in no child or death in the mother’s womb. Venus is in own sign but in a dustana. Being in his own sign, he has the capacity to give 2 children, but since he is in dustana, loss of a child is indicated.

The number of children will be

Sun -1
Mars +1
Mercury -1
Venus +1 and -1

ie 2 healthy children and 3 children who are going to die early. I have my own doubts about Ectopic pregnancy. My limited knowledge makes me not accept it as a normal child birth.

Timing of events is another interesting feature in Ashtakavarga. One can use Ashtakavarga Rasi Dasa or Ashtakavarga Graha Dasa for timing. I have tried it with many cases and am not fully satisfied with the use of this method. While in some cases, the results are perfect, there are a few cases in which timing failed. My own limitations in this subject could be the reason of failure.

The Ashtakavarga Graha Dasa is computed as follows. The Mahadasa periods are calculated in the similar fashion as Graha/Nakshatra Dasa (usually Vimshottari Dasa). Only the calculation of the Antardasas differs. The order of Antardasa under any given Mahadasa is Saturn, Jupiter, Mars, Sun, Venus, Mercury, Moon and Lagna (according to their distance from Earth). All antardasas are of the same time span ie Mahadasa is divided into 8 equal parts and the first 1/8 part is given to Saturn, 2nd 1/8 part to Jupiter, 3rd 1/8 part to Mars and so on. If we consider Jupiter Mahadasa which is for 16 years, then the first antardasa will be of Saturn lasting for 2 years, second will be of Jupiter for the next two years and so. The last 2 years belongs to Lagna.

In Carmen’s horoscope, Ashtakavarga Graha Dasa will be as follows:

Since Lagna is Vargothama, Sataabhdika Dasa pattern is applicable.
Maha Dasas:

Ven: 1947-12-08 - 1957-12-08
Merc: 1957-12-08 - 1967-12-08
Jup: 1967-12-08 - 1987-12-08
Mars: 1987-12-08 - 2007-12-09
Sat: 2007-12-09 - 2037-12-08
Sun: 2037-12-08 - 2042-12-09
Moon: 2042-12-09 - 2047-12-09

Jupiter is capable of giving children. Antardasa’s in Jupiter’s Mahadasa are as follows:

Jupiter Mahadasa - 8 Dec 1967 to 8 Dec 1987

Saturn 8-Dec-1967 - 8-Jun-1970
Jupiter 8-Jun-1970 - 7-Dec-1972
Mars 7-Dec-1972 - 8-Jun-1975 <<<
Sun 8-Jun-1975 - 7-Dec-1977 <<<
Venus 7-Dec-1977 - 7-Jun-1980 <<<
Mercury 7-Jun-1980 - 7-Dec-1982 <<<
Moon 7-Dec-1982 - 7-Jun-1985
Lagna 7-Jun-1985 - 8-Dec-1987

In the Dasa of Mars, the antardasa’s are as follows:

Mars Mahadasa 8 Dec 1987 to 9 Dec 2007

Saturn 8-Dec-1987 - 8-Jun-1990
Jupiter 8-Jun-1990 - 7-Dec-1992
Mars 7-Dec-1992 - 8-Jun-1995 <<<
Sun 8-Jun-1995 - 8-Dec-1997 <<<
Venus 8-Dec-1997 - 8-Jun-2000 <<<
Mercury 8-Jun-2000 - 8-Dec-2002 <<<
Moon 8-Dec-2002 - 8-Jun-2005
Lagna 8-Jun-2005 - 9-Dec-2007

According the standard principles, planets which are not involved in contributing any points will not give results.

In Rasi Ashtakavarga Dasa, Mahadasa pattern is similar to Chara dasa (or other Rasi Dasas). For antardasa, each rasi dasa is divided into 12 equal parts. The first part belongs to the sign occupied by Jupiter, 2nd part belongs to the 2nd house from Jupiter and so on. The last part belongs to 12th house from Jupiter. This is applicable for timing events related to children etc. If one needs to time death, he can consider Shoola Dasa. The antardasa begins with the sign occupied by Saturn.

The results can be further narrowed down using the following procedure:

The Sodya pinda of Jupiter is multiplied by 7 and divided by 27. The remainder obtained is noted. This number counted from Ashwini or Nakshatra occupied by Jupiter is kept as reference. When Jupiter in his transit comes to the said Nakshatra or its trines, results are felt.

In Carmen’s horoscope, Sodya Pinda of Jupiter is 133. When multiplied by 7 and divided by 27, we get 13. From Ashwini it is the Hasta Nakshatra and from Dhanishta (occupied by Jupiter) it is Pusyami.

Around July 1981, Jupiter was in Hasta Nakshatra. My guess would be that the first miscarriage took place around this time. We can judge the other issues in a similar manner.

Some scholars consider the number of bindus in the 5th house from Jupiter in his Prasthara Ashtakavarga. This is multiplied by Jupiter Sodya pinda and divided by 27. The reminder is added to Ashwini and when Jupiter transits this star or its trines, a child is born.

Om Tat Sat,

Raman Suprajarama


Natal Chart

Date: November 3, 1950
Time: 7:15:00
Time Zone: 2:00:00 (East of GMT)
Place: 18 E 25' 00", 33 S 55' 00"
Cape Town, South Africa
Altitude: 0.00 meters

Lunar Yr-Mo: Vikriti - Aswayuja
Tithi: Krishna Ashtami (Ra) (32.98% left)
Vedic Weekday: Friday (Ve)
Nakshatra: Aasresha (Me) (70.93% left)
Yoga: Sukla (Mo) (82.17% left)
Karana: Kaulava (Ma) (65.96% left)
Hora Lord: Mercury (5 min sign: Aq)
Mahakala Hora: Venus (5 min sign: Pi)
Kaala Lord: Venus (Mahakala: Venus)

Sunrise: 5:48:49
Sunset: 19:11:37
Janma Ghatis: 3.5906

Ayanamsa: 21-43-14.91 NOTE : Raman Ayanamsha
Sidereal Time: 9:16:16

Body Longitude Nakshatra Pada Rasi Navamsa

Lagna 14 Sc 27' 31.06" Anu 4 Sc Sc
Sun - BK 18 Li 30' 02.35" Swat 4 Li Pi
Moon - AK 20 Cn 32' 34.73" Asre 2 Cn Cp
Mars - DK 5 Sg 59' 53.44" Mool 2 Sg Ta
Mercury - AmK 19 Li 26' 45.42" Swat 4 Li Pi
Jupiter - GK 6 Aq 02' 06.81" Dhan 4 Aq Sc
Venus - MK 15 Li 48' 03.72" Swat 3 Li Aq
Saturn - PK 6 Vi 38' 04.87" UPha 3 Vi Aq
Rahu 4 Pi 10' 36.95" UBha 1 Pi Le
Ketu 4 Vi 10' 36.95" UPha 3 Vi Aq
Maandi 0 Sg 54' 58.72" Mool 1 Sg Ar
Gulika 18 Sc 15' 59.09" Jye 1 Sc Sg
Bhava Lagna 9 Sc 59' 04.49" Anu 2 Sc Vi
Hora Lagna 1 Sg 31' 42.41" Mool 1 Sg Ar
Ghati Lagna 6 Aq 09' 36.19" Dhan 4 Aq Sc
Vighati Lagna 29 Sg 19' 05.05" USha 1 Sg Sg
Varnada Lagna 14 Sg 27' 31.06" Aswi 1 Sg Sg
Sree Lagna 29 Aq 07' 08.84" PBha 3 Aq Ge
Pranapada Lagna 29 Sg 22' 40.84" USha 1 Sg Sg
Indu Lagna 20 Le 32' 34.73" PPha 3 Le Li
Dhooma 1 Pi 50' 02.35" PBha 4 Pi Cn
Vyatipata 28 Ar 09' 57.65" Krit 1 Ar Sg
Parivesha 28 Li 09' 57.65" Visa 3 Li Ge
Indra Chapa 1 Vi 50' 02.35" UPha 2 Vi Cp
Upaketu 18 Vi 30' 02.35" Hast 3 Vi Ge
Kaala 14 Cp 33' 56.97" Srav 2 Cp Ta
Mrityu 26 Aq 19' 30.45" PBha 2 Aq Ta
Artha Prahara 17 Pi 32' 10.30" Reva 1 Pi Sg
Yama Ghantaka 8 Ar 35' 32.75" Aswi 3 Ar Ge
Prana Sphuta 0 Cp 33' 34.41" USha 2 Cp Cp
Deha Sphuta 2 Ta 36' 36.95" Krit 2 Ta Cp
Mrityu Sphuta 26 Pi 21' 55.97" Reva 3 Pi Aq
Sookshma TriSphuta 29 Cp 32' 07.32" Dhan 2 Cp Vi
TriSphuta 23 Li 16' 04.88" Visa 1 Li Ar
ChatusSphuta 11 Ta 46' 07.24" Rohi 1 Ta Ar
PanchaSphuta 15 Ar 56' 44.19" Bhar 1 Ar Le
V2 14 Vi 27' 31.06" Aswi 1 Vi Ta
V3 14 Le 27' 31.06" Aswi 1 Le Ar
V4 14 Cp 27' 31.06" Aswi 1 Cp Ta
V5 14 Ar 27' 31.06" Aswi 1 Ar Sg
V6 14 Cp 27' 31.06" Aswi 1 Cp Vi
V7 14 Le 27' 31.06" Aswi 1 Le Sg
V8 14 Vi 27' 31.06" Aswi 1 Vi Ta
V9 14 Sg 27' 31.06" Aswi 1 Sg Ar
V10 14 Ta 27' 31.06" Aswi 1 Ta Ta
V11 14 Ar 27' 31.06" Aswi 1 Ar Sg
V12 14 Ta 27' 31.06" Aswi 1 Ta Vi
Kunda 1 Li 08' 56.18" Chit 3 Li Li

|Ra | | | |
| | | | |
| | | | |
| | | | |
| | | | |
|Ju GL | |Mo AL |
| | | |
| | | |
| | | |
| | | |
|-----------| Rasi |-----------|
| | | |
| | | |
| | | |
| | | |
| | | |
|Ma HL |As Gk |Su Me |Sa Ke |
|Md | |Ve | |
| | | | |
| | | | |
| | | | |

Vimsottari Dasa (started from Moon):

Merc Merc 1945-11-23 Ket 1948-04-18 Ven 1949-04-15
Sun 1952-02-14 Moon 1952-12-22 Mars 1954-05-22
Rah 1955-05-19 Jup 1957-12-08 Sat 1960-03-12
Ket Ket 1962-11-24 Ven 1963-04-19 Sun 1964-06-19
Moon 1964-10-27 Mars 1965-05-25 Rah 1965-10-24
Jup 1966-11-12 Sat 1967-10-19 Merc 1968-11-26
Ven Ven 1969-11-23 Sun 1973-03-22 Moon 1974-03-22
Mars 1975-11-24 Rah 1977-01-21 Jup 1980-01-22
Sat 1982-09-24 Merc 1985-11-23 Ket 1988-09-24
Sun Sun 1989-11-23 Moon 1990-03-10 Mars 1990-09-12
Rah 1991-01-16 Jup 1991-12-12 Sat 1992-09-30
Merc 1993-09-12 Ket 1994-07-18 Ven 1994-11-24
Moon Moon 1995-11-24 Mars 1996-09-24 Rah 1997-04-21
Jup 1998-10-25 Sat 2000-02-21 Merc 2001-09-24
Ket 2003-02-20 Ven 2003-09-25 Sun 2005-05-22
Mars Mars 2005-11-24 Rah 2006-04-19 Jup 2007-05-07
Sat 2008-04-12 Merc 2009-05-22 Ket 2010-05-20
Ven 2010-10-19 Sun 2011-12-18 Moon 2012-04-21
Rah Rah 2012-11-23 Jup 2015-08-06 Sat 2017-12-29
Merc 2020-11-06 Ket 2023-05-23 Ven 2024-06-10
Sun 2027-06-11 Moon 2028-05-04 Mars 2029-11-06
Jup Jup 2030-11-24 Sat 2033-01-10 Merc 2035-07-25
Ket 2037-10-31 Ven 2038-10-07 Sun 2041-06-04
Moon 2042-03-22 Mars 2043-07-25 Rah 2044-06-29
Sat Sat 2046-11-24 Merc 2049-11-27 Ket 2052-08-06
Ven 2053-09-15 Sun 2056-11-15 Moon 2057-10-28
Mars 2059-05-26 Rah 2060-07-05 Jup 2063-05-11

Ashtakavarga of Rasi Chart: NOTE : Varahamihira Options

Ar Ta Ge Cn Le Vi Li Sc Sg Cp Aq Pi
As 2 5 4 4 4 5 4 4* 6 4 4 3
Su 5 3 5 5 4 6 5* 1 5 3 2 4
Mo 6 5 1 5* 6 4 2 2 5 7 5 1
Ma 2 3 2 4 4 5 1 2 6* 3 2 5
Me 3 3 6 4 6 6 5* 2 7 3 5 4
Ju 3 4 4 5 7 3 3 7 4 5 5* 6
Ve 2 5 6 4 5 4 4* 6 5 3 5 3
Sa 3 4 2 4 4 5* 2 4 2 4 3 2

Sodhya Pinda Rasi Pinda Graha Pinda
As 125 83 42
Su 174 80 94
Mo 169 92 77
Ma 147 85 62
Me 146 89 57
Ju 133 105 28
Ve 173 129 44
Sa 92 67 25

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Monday, April 25, 2005

Predictive Success etc...

By PVR Narasimha Rao

> I apologize if what I wrote was construed as malignment. This was not
> my intention as I had stated in the mail. When I meant SJC group, I
> was really referring to Shri Sanjay Rath alone. I am a beginner and
> looked around initially for proof of aptitude amongst various

Even if you were "really referring to Shri Sanjay Rath alone", I take an exception to your original assertion (that you did not find any correct predictions from the SJC group). Irrespective of your intetions, such discrediting in a public list is in poor taste.

Sanjay ji made a lot of correct predictions on mundane events. When Vajpayee government lost the confidence vote in April 1999, some big name astrologers were putting their money on Sonia Gandhi. But Sanjay ji predicted that Vajpayee would stay in power. At the time of Bill Clinton impeachment, Sanjay ji predicted that Clinton would remain in power. He made several successful predictions on Naveen Patnaik. He made many other correct predictions.

His only two failures in mundane astrology that I remember came last year. He (like many) judged the Indian elections incorrectly. He also went wrong on George W re-election, but I personally know that it was an emotional prediction than an astrological one. He and I spent one whole day at my home rectifying and judging the charts of Kerry and Bush. We came to the conclusion that Bush would win. But Sanjay ji went in front of a pro-Kerry crowd at a workshop and preidcted that Kerry would win. I had to then go against his prediction and predict a Bush victory.

Apart from these two wrong predictions last year, I am not aware of any wrong predictions by him. In individual horoscopy, I have personally seen a lot of amazing predictions by him.

> teachers. I found Shri KN Rao to be excellant and his books are
> remarkable. I did not find anyone else to be anywhere close to him
> based on publicly known predictions. This of course does not mean
> that Shri Sanjay Rath is not good or anything, just that I am not
> aware of his public predictions. I will also kindly request yourself/
> Sanjay Rath to post predictions on his website so that people can
> judge for themselves- this will also convince skeptics as well as
> bring more credibility to the field of astrology in general (the
> argument that people avoid predictions to avoid public fame and
> adulation is a very weak one).

Mundane horoscopy is lot less scientifically developed than individual horoscopy. Many times, correct data is not available. Moreover, several mundane predictions tend to have good odds too and not that amazing.

If the goal is to convince skeptics, individual horoscopy is a better candidate.

Let me suggest a simple challenge.

Can astrologers take up a challenge where rationalists would give them 50 accurate charts and give multiple choice questions involving events in those charts. For example, the question can be - when did the person marry? Answers can be (a) Apr 1990, (b) Aug 1991, (c) Jul 1993, (d) Sep 1994, (e) Feb 1995.

If a challenge like this is given, are we confident that we can score 45 out of 50?

I am not fully confident today, but I am hopeful of being able to take such a
challenge in not-too-far future.

Such structured challenges can serve the purpose of convincing skeptics more
than making some mundane predictions.

Anyway, we do make predictions from time to time on various yahoogroups.

> Your post on Kargil war was remarkable I should say. This happened
> more than 5 years ago and I would like to know about more
> predictions, how many of them turned out correctly etc. Puzzles are

I never counted them. Those who like me will remember my correct predictions and
those who dislike me will remember my incorrect predictions.

I have great failures such as Gore win and BJP re-election in 2004. But I have
some good predictions too. Bush re-election and Vajpayee re-election in 1999 are
perhaps not great predictions because they had a 50% chance. There are others
that were more credible. For example, when the Iraq war started, I did predict
on vedic-astrology yahoogroup when the Hussein govt would fall. Exactly during
that week, US entered Baghdad and took control of Baghdas. It happened so
quickly that nobody else seemed to have expected it. Many seemed to think
Baghdad would fall after 3-4 weeks, but I predicted a much quicker fall. After
September 11, I predicted the week in which US would attack Afghanistan and the
week in which Kabul would fall. Both were correct and they were predicted based
on Rudramsa Mandoola dasa of the lunar new year charts.

But there was far greater success for me in individual horoscopy than in mundane
horoscopy. There were many occasions when people told me that I told them
something would happen in so and so month or week and it happened. But most of
these things are private and not public. However, on vedic-astrology yahoogroup,
there were some examples.

> interesting but not necessarily proof of validity (at least on one
> occasion I used only common sense to arrive at the answer)

Well, I beg to differ. It depends on the puzzles. Some puzzles are easy to guess
and some are not. For example, one guy who lost his job posted a puzzle on
vedic-astrology list in the last week of January asking when he would get a job.
I and my students at Boston (it's in the class audio) saw his chart and said
that he would find a job in the coming week, that it would be a contract job and
that he would find a better permanent job during March 21-Apr 11. That guy
confirmed on v-a list that he got a contract job in the next week and he
confirmed to me by private mail that he got a better permanent job at the end of

This has a low random probability. I know several people who have been looking
for a job for months. The probability of finding a job within 10 days is not
high. To guess that it would be a contract job and that another permanent offer
would come in March 21-Apr 11 is not easy without some reasonable astrological
principles. Mind you, this was done with some small help by me by some guys who
started learning astrology last May.So they were relying on replicable
astro-principles more than on sadhana.

If you ask me, blind puzzles based on charts of normal people are a better way
to judge techniques than 50% probability predictions based on speculative charts
of public figures or nations.

> Let me also add that among the next generation astrologers, you are
> one of the most prominent ones. I will also make this prediction
> (without using any astrology) that in coming decades your
> contributions will equal or exceed that of BV Raman or KN Rao. I am

Thanks for your prediction, but the reason for my taking offense at your
discrediting remarks on the "SJC group" is not egoistic. I am not looking for
praises. My only interest is in perfecting my knowledge. The rest is all maya.
Recognition, name and fame are all just an illusion. True knowledge is the only
thing that is permanent and will accompany me into my next lives.

Different people operate under different circumstances and their contributions
cannot be compared. Also, in my opinion, nobody can come close to Dr Raman's
contributions. He belongs to a different level, like Varahamihira.

> also grateful for all the detailed and indepth clarifications that
> you have given in the past and continue to give, inspite of the busy
> life you lead.
> Once again I hope my questioning and healthy skepticism is not taken
> as criticism/defamement in any manner whatsoever - I state again that
> this was not my aim at all.

Well, question how a technique works and I will be glad to answer. Ask for
examples and I will be glad to show examples. But to question a whole group's
success based on your limited exposure to their work amounts to a propaganda and
unfair discrediting. Discussions on the success of individuals and groups are
usually a bad idea for public lists. They have scope for smear and
ill-intentioned propaganda. It is tough to distinguish smear from genuine
questioning, and it does harm to the image of the parties involved.

It also increase rajas in the parties involved. Instead, focussing on techniques
and not discussing successes of people increases sattva more.

> Best regards,
> -Vijay
> ps. I hope you will share with us your presentation at the seminar on
> financial astrology. My teacher RG Krishnan had also presented at the
> seminar.

I will try.

May Jupiter's light shine on us,

Divisional Charts (Debates-II)

Namaste friends,

> I admire your views. I refered BPHS and found the views on shodasha
> vargas and what Parasara says about akshavedamsa and shashtiamsa.
> Infact apart from shashtiamsa Maharshi gives more importance to
> akshavedamsa also, compared to other vargas while he stresses to see
> everything from Shashtiamsa. I would look forward to your studies in
> this regard.

Dear Saaji, I have some insights into D-60, but haven't worked much with D-45. My guru Pt Sanjay Rath teaches that it shows karma inherited from father and his ancestors. If your grandfather did great deeds, you will also benefit from that karma. D-45 shows that. However, I haven't used it that much.

> You said in Dasavarga scheme, Parasara gave more value to
> Shashtiamsa, but if you see BPHS, Parasara speaks about shadvarga and
> saptavarga scheme before moving onto Dasavarga. Why Shashtiamsa didnt
> fall in shadvarga group surprises me

You raise a very pertinent issue.

Some people hold the view one can 'pick' a varga scheme and use it. One may like shadvarga scheme and use it and one may like dasavarga scheme and use it.

But I find this view illogical. How can D-60 have a higher weightage than rasi and navamsa combined in dasavarga and yet not figure in shadvarga? Obviously, there is a specific purpose for each varga and only one varga is relevant in a particular case. You can't pick the varga scheme based on your wishes.

In our tradition, we believe that dasa varga is applicable in normal manushya jaataka (human horoscopy) and shadvarga is applicable in mundane horoscopy. As "karma carried from past lives" is far less important in mundane charts than present karma, D-60 is not important and does not find place in shadvarga. However, "karma carried from past lives" is the main factor in determining the fortunes of individuals and hence it is the most important chart in dasa varga and has a higher weightage than rasi and navamsa combined.

If you look at various combinations given for dhana yogas and raja yogas using vaiseshikamsas in classics such as BPHS and Jataka Parijatam, you will see Uttamamsa, Gopuramsa etc (based on dasa varga) used and not Kimshukamsa, Vyanjanamsa etc (based on shadvarga). This is in line with the teachings of our tradition that dasa varga is the most relevant in manushya jataka.

Parasara obviously expected us to be intelligent and figure out when to use which varga.

> Again when we write a book, we will naturally devote more space to
> discuss important aspects in detail compared to others and as far as
> shashtiamsa is concerned, I didnt see anything more than
> benefic/malefic shashtiamsa and Vimsopaka strength.

I disagree. Judging the importance of a topic from the number of pages devoted to it is superficial. Parasara would not decide the numbers of verses devoted to a topic based on its importance. He would do so based on how much he had to say on it. The very fact that Parasara said "everything" can be seen in D-60 and gave it the highest weightage in the varga schemes in which it figures (dasa and shodasa) clearly proves its importance.

Moreover, we cannot be sure that we have the entire BPHS. There may be lost chapters. In fact, I did hear about chapters on D-60 existing in some quarters.

> Whatever veterans say treat it as a mantra, a thread. Try to develop it, elaborate
> it. I will sincerely advise you to read all the books of Shri K.N.Rao again and
> again and contemplate over it keeping aside your present belief system, at
> least temporarily. You will gain immensely.

Dear Praveen, I do have several books by Sri KN Rao. I did read them. In my view, he does not have a consistent and logical methodology for using various parameters of Jyotish. He uses a lot of them interchangably and that's unappealing to me. For example, he uses arudha padas sometimes, but he uses them intercgangably with houses. If 5th house, arudha pada of 5th and 5th lord show the same thing, it seems illogical to me. They are different parameters and must have different meanings and must have different uses. I respect Sri Rao, but I did not find the answers I was looking for in Sri KN Rao's books. I found them only at SJC and in the teachings of Pt Sanjay Rath.

I too can behave like you and tell you to keep aside "your present belief system, at least temporarily" and consider our teachings.
> Dear Pradeep, please quote a mail from me that says "rasi chakra is
> simple".
> Give me the yahoogroup name and the mail number.
> You wrote -under misc.replies
> '''We are often doing imperfect astrology for the sake of simplicity
> and look at only one chart''.
> I assumed you meant rashi chakra analysis is simplistic(the one
> chart we use is Rashi chakra).If you did not mean it kindly ignore.

I was talking about using a single chart (could be rasi, could be dasamsa) vs combining multiple charts. I was not talking about rasi chart.

Neither rasi chart nor dasamsa nor shashtyamsa is simple. All are complicated.

For perfect readings, we need to consider various charts. For example, take career. Rasi shows physical existence and physical activities. D-10 shows the professional enivornment. D-24 shows one's learning environment. D-2 shows one's financial environment. D-9 shows one's dharmik environment. D-60 shows the karma to be experienced in various areas of life due to past life karma. How can we judge one's career perfectly, without taking all these charts into consideration? But, it is a tough task. In comparison, it is much simpler to just see rasi or D-10 and judge career. That is what I was saying.

When I have to compromise and use only one chart, I am more comfortable using D-10 for career than rasi. That works better for me. But I was saying that it is imperfect and the perfect solution involves multiple charts.

> I am not aware of any publicly available predictions on mundane
> events/famous people from the SJC group. If you have any links to
> these, please let me know. Please also note that I am asking this in
> all earnestness - I was considering buying Shri Sanjay Rath's
> Narayana Dasa but having seen no public, stated-in-advance
> predictions I was disinclined to do so.
It was using compressed navamsa Narayana dasa of Vajpayee's swearing-in chart that I had written in Express Star Teller magazine that India would have fresh troubles from terrorism after March 19, 1999 (Pakistani incursion into Kargil started then and went on for a couple of months before India detected it) and a confrontation with another nation after May 19, 1999 (Kargil war broke on May 25, 1999).

If you forget mundane horoscopy and focus on individual horoscopy, there were several predictions made by several people using Narayana dasa on vedic-astrology yahoogroup. You can find many correct individual predictions and correctly solved puzzles on vedic-astrology yahoogroup using several techniques based on our tradition, such as Tithi Pravesha and Narayana dasa.

It is very easy to conduct propaganda, intentionally or unintentionally, and discredit sincere and capable people. But it is bad karma for one who engages in it, irrespective of whether there were malicious intentions or not.

BTW, you don't have to buy the Narayana dasa book. It is available for a free download, thanks to the generosity of Sanjay ji. Go to

Some interpretation techniques that Sanjay ji did not clearly cover in his book were more clearly dealt with in my classes. So consider downloading my mp3 lessons related to Narayana dasa also. They will supplement the book nicely.

> Moolatrikona,swakshethra etc are not bhavas.We are talking about
> bhavas in amshas. I have
> also asked before -why 64th navamsha is counted in Rashi and not a
> particular bhava in navamsha ''chart''.I have also quoted shri Gayatri
> devis comment 20 years back - supporting usage of navamsha as chart
> -why should smt .Devi try to support something - if it was not
> questioned? Also smt devi will not respond if the allegator was a
> common soul like pradeep.Thus it is clear that people of stature had
> questioned usage of navamsha and vargas with bhavas.
Pradeep, do you support taking houses in navamsa or not? Please make that clear.

If you do, then all your objections to taking houses in other divisions will be quite illogical.

If you don't, how do you explain glaring differences between some twins? The only thing that differentiates them is lagna in some divisional charts (and hence houses in them).

May Jupiter's light shine on us,

Houses in Divisional Charts

> Dear Narasimha ji
> Thanks a lot for your reply.
> For me navamsha is also a division.
> Now regarding twins -you are right - lagnas navamsha/drekkana etc is
> very important.But no bhava is needed here as well.
> As i have always said,divisions are for our lagna and planets.Can you
> think any other way of getting divisions.Lagna too has divisions as it
> is having a coordinate or degree.
> Through divisions we are seeing the kshethra,drekkana,navamsha etc of
> our lagna.
> Let us take Saravali.
> ''Following are the effects of births in the nine Navāńśas in Aries
> Ascendant: Effects of Aries Ascendant, First Navāńśa: The native will
> have a face, resembling that of a he-goat, with nose and shoulders not
> being very prominent. He will have a fierce voice, ugly appearance and
> narrow eyes. His body will be thin, but free from defects. Effects of
> Aries Ascendant, Second Navāńśa: The native will be dark in
> complexion, will have broad shoulders and long arms. small forehead,
> strong collar bones, sharp sight and prominent face and nose. He will
> be an affable speaker and will possess weak legs''.
> Here Aries ascendant represents our Tanubhava(Rashi).First navamsha of
> Aries is Aries - Thus if our lagna is within 3.2 degrees ,then effects
> are as per first navamsha.Second navasmha in Aries is Taurus - Thus if
> lagna is after 3 degrees 20 mins and before 6.40 we take effects as
> per second navamsha within Aries Rashi.
> On the other hand bhava means - we consider Tanu ,dhana,bhagya,labha
> etc in navamsha.I sincerely wish if people may start taking these
> factors for chart rectification than bhavas.
> Regds
> Pradeep


Regarding twins, you are agreeing that the divisions of lagna are important but you are refusing to take houses from divisional lagna. I fail to see how you can explain the differences between twins.

Let us try an example of twins.

(1) 15th September 1970, 1:14 am (TZ: 5:00 west)
Stillwater, Oklahoma, USA (97 W 03' 29', 36 N 06' 56')
Moon: 25Aq38, Lagna: 17Ge37

(1) 15th September 1970, 1:29 am (TZ: 5:00 west)
Stillwater, Oklahoma, USA (97 W 03' 29', 36 N 06' 56')
Moon: 25Aq39, Lagna: 14Ge20

Saravali gives some general guidelines on physical attributes, facial features and general nature based on hora, drekkana and navamsa. If you use those guidelines, you will not really see the differences between these twins. For example, Saravali says that one born in the 5th navamsa of Gemini has a wide face, large chest, big head, deception, strong shoulders etc. It says that one born in the 6th navamsa of Gemini has sweet looks, talkative nature, uneven forehead, nice body, red lips etc.

Now, how do you explain the glaring difference between these two twins using just the above?

One twin is insane and the other is brilliant and has degrees in engineering and medicine.

If you take houses in divisional charts, you can explain the differences.

BTW, many (though not all) old astrologers who use navamsa take houses in navamsa.

May Jupiter's light shine on us,

> Namaste Narasimha
> >
> > (1) 15th September 1970, 1:14 am (TZ: 5:00 west)
> > Stillwater, Oklahoma, USA (97 W 03' 29", 36 N 06' 56")
> > Moon: 25Aq38, Lagna: 17Ge37
> Please check the lagna degrees,I think you got this and the other
> one interchanged.
> > (1) 15th September 1970, 1:29 am (TZ: 5:00 west)
> > Stillwater, Oklahoma, USA (97 W 03' 29", 36 N 06' 56")
> > Moon: 25Aq39, Lagna: 14Ge20

You are right. There were cut, paste & edit errors. The birthdata is correct

It should be:

(1) 15th September 1970, 1:14 am (TZ: 5:00 west)
Stillwater, Oklahoma, USA (97 W 03' 29", 36 N 06' 56")
Moon: 25Aq39, Lagna: 14Ge20

(2) 15th September 1970, 1:29 am (TZ: 5:00 west)
Stillwater, Oklahoma, USA (97 W 03' 29", 36 N 06' 56")
Moon: 25Aq48, Lagna: 17Ge37

> Astrological analysis of tiwns always in interesting. In this case
> it is clear that Navamsa lagna changes and other divisonal charts
> lagna changes.

Yes and if you take the houses in navamsa and other divisional charts, the
picture is totally different in the two charts.

I am curious to see how people like Vijaydas Pradeep, who question finding
houses in navamsa and other divisional charts, can explain the glaring
differences between these twins.

> Take, D12 (dwadamsa), you have all grahas in the same
> rashi, except that Lagna changes. But it is the same parents. How
> does one reconcile this fact?
> Is this the answer: Natural karakas for parents or Chara Karakas do
> not change.

Good point. In fact, we don't need twins for this issue. This is true for
siblings also. If you take the 4th and 9th houses from lagna or karaka
(Sun/Moon) in rasi or dwadasamsa, siblings can show different influences
relating parents. But they may share the same parents. What does it mean?

In the case of twins, you can take natural significators and be happy that
D-12's show the same father and mother. But what about siblings? Their rasi and
D-12 charts may be totally different even if you take natural karakas. What now?
Do you want to rethink your answer?

Even father's and mother's rasi and saptamsa charts can show different
influences regarding the same child. How to reconcile this?

I will give my views on this in a couple of days, after letting others give
their views!

> I have a case where even the D9 is same but D10, D12 lagna are
> different (but graha positions are same). The two twins (Born in
> Tamil Nadu, 1978, time recored meticulously by parents) are having
> different careers, same education engineering/BE, but different
> specialization, and on top of that one twin is in USA, the other
> twin is in India. Big difference in destinies.

I am not at all surprised.

Only Vedic astrology has tools that enable us to answer the twins riddle. Yet
some Vedic astrologers refuse to accept those tools. What a pity...

I even have a case where only shashtyamsa is different and other divisional
charts are the same. They are still different persons.

> What is the appropriate dasha to use in this case? (Kalachakra
> dasha?). Can you please point me to a book, or internet site that
> explains this dasha usage?
> Thanks
> M.Sharma (Michigan)

Technically, we are supposed to use Shodasottari dasa in the elder twin's chart
and Ashtottari dasa in the younger sibling's chart. Lagna being in Sun's hora
and it being Sukla paksha, Shodasottari applies in the elder's chart. In the
younger's case, it doesn't apply as lagna changes to Moon's hora. Ashtottari
applies in both (Sukla paksha, night time birth and Rahu in a quadrant from
lagna lord). But Shodasottari is given precedence over Ashtottari when both

However, my repertiore is limited to Dwisaptati sama dasa, Chaturaseeti sama
dasa, Shashtihayani dasa and Sataabdika dasa. When I tried to use Shodasottari
and Ashtottari dasas as general purpose phalita dasas, I felt that there might
be some missing links.When I can't use the above-mentioned 4 dasas, I just use

So I will personally use Vimsottari dasa in these charts.

May Jupiter's light shine on us,

Friday, April 22, 2005

Importance of Varga (debate)

Sri PVR Narasimha's Views
> How to use Rasi / Vargas ? See what Shri K.N.Rao says:
> Whatever is indicated by Rasi chart will definitely take place. But how and when, this depends on Vargas.

Dear Praveen, are you saying that rasi chart is not at all to be used for timing events??? If you say that rasi chart only shows WHETHER an event will happen or not and vargas show WHEN it will happen, you seem to say that rasi chart is useless for timing events. I am surprised!

If you say that rasi chart helps in timing also, then what do you mean by vargas showing the "when" part???

> You are very right in pointing the imperfections.Now you have said
> Rashi chakra is very simple - Atleast not for me.I have not even

Dear Pradeep, please quote a mail from me that says "rasi chakra is simple". Give me the yahoogroup name and the mail number.

Neither rasi chart nor vargas nor the all-powerful D-60 are "simple".

> properly.It will take many years to master.Also on one hand you say
> combination of Rashi chakra with Vargas and on the other hand -
> there is no Main chart.If rashi chakra is not the main why do you
> want to use them in combination with Vargas?.

If salt is used in all foods, it doesn't mean salt is the main thing in those foods.

Various divisional charts show various abstract environments (e.g. professional environment, spiritual enviromnent etc) in which one leads one's existence. Rasi chart is the physical existence which links all these environmental influences.

If there is one "main" chart, it is D-60 in my view. It shows the karma one needs to experience. According to our tradition, the physical existence (rasi) and various environments surrounding it (navamsa, dasamsa etc) are but a vehicle for discharging the karma shown by D-60. No wonder Parasara said everything can be seen in D-60 and gave it more weightage in dasa varga scheme than rasi and navamsa COMBINED!

> Also if Rashi chakra is not the main why do you give so many yogas
> in your software based on Rashi chakra - pertaining to all

:-) :-) My software can show all yogas in all divisional charts. Which yoga is more relevant in which chart and which yoga gives which results in which chart is left to the intelligent astrologer using the software!

> aspects.If Rashi chakra is just for physique - how will we see the
> qualities of Mahapurusha from the Rashi chakra?

There is a difference between "physical existence" and "physique". I did not say rasi shows physique alone. I said that it shows the physical existenmce.

Vargas show abstract environments and rasi shows physical existence. For example, Mercury and Venus are in 5th and 9th from Gemini lagna in my D-24 and in 9th and 10th from Virgo lagna in my D-10. They show excellent influences educationally and professionally. But both are in 8th house from Virgo lagna in rasi chart and they make me always work hard physically. I may be learning well, following my dharma and doing good things, but it all comes with physical hardship and suffering.

A hard-working engineer, an ambitious entrepreneur and a rickshaw puller in India may all have the 10th lord in 8th with Saturn and may be working hard and suffering physically due to their work. Then rasi would show that (physical suffering due to work) and D-10 would clarify the professional enviroment in which that physical hard work comes.

If you hold a different view, please do. I am only clarifying my position for the benefit of fellow students who are open-minded and inquisitive.

> Truthfully speaking, I am thoroughly muddled by all
> these confusions. I am even more confused by the Karakamsha debate. I

Dear Sundeep, Astrology does work thru sadhana. But that is definitely not all. There IS a scientific part of it too. It is upto our generation and the next few generations to establish this.

The word "karakamsa" means "[nav]amsa of [atma]karaka". There is nothing in this name to suggest that this should transposed into rasi chart. I don't really think BPHS is ambiguous. Parasara talked about houses from the navamsas of atmakaraka, amatya karaka and swa (self - lagna). If Parasara did not specify whether that navamsa position is to be transposed into rasi chart or drekkana chart or dasamsa chart for finding houses, I wouldn't call that ambiguity. When no such thing is explicitly mentioned, obviously houses from navamsa would mean houses from navamsa in the navamsa chart.

In my view, Parasara is unambiguous and yet some people created controversy. Some astrologers averse to finding houses in navamsa must have created the tradition of taking karakamsa position in rasi and finding houses from it in rasi. Some modern astrologers like Sri KN Rao were influenced by this old practice. But Parasara does not grant this at all.

Both the camps may have made correct predictions. But that could be due to sadhana as you point out. The issue is: are there some objective principles that can be reproduced? You can judge this for yourself if you read BPHS and try. Parasara gave several principles for houses from the amsas of AK, AmK and lagna. See how they work.

For example, two malefics in trines from karakamsa make one knowledgeable in mantra sastra. Take known mantrikas such as Chandra Swami and see if this principle is satisfied in rasi or in navamsa.

There is scope for a lot of objective scientific work on Jyotish controversies. Though some people attempted such work in the past, I am not so impressed by their researches. But today we have a lot of astrologers who are well-grounded in modern scientific thought. We can conduct researches that will be acceptable to the scientific community also.

I foresee great researches in the coming 30-40 years.

> As far as I know, Kalyan Varman says "bhavanaadhipaiH samastaM..." the
> reference is clearly to lord of Bhavan or Bhava. Bhavan, Rasi etc. are
> synonymous. Is there any shloka of his that mentions vargaadhip or Vargesha?

Dear Chandrashekhar ji, the word "bhavanaadhipa" can be interpreted as rasi lords. However, this verse comes after listing the lords of rasis and navamsas and before listing the lords of other vargas. So some astrologers (e.g. Pt Sanjay Rath) do not interpret bhavana as just houses in rasi chart, but as houses in various vargas. Bhavana only means a house and not necessarily a house in rasi chart. If one accepts houses in navamsas etc, they can also be called bhavanas. So this verse of Saravali can be interpreted to say that one cannot make predictions without looking at various house lords in various divisions.

May Jupiter's light shine on us,

Tuesday, April 05, 2005

How to predict for sports events

By Sri Gopal Krishnan
This is not given in any classical book but innovation can be be done based on
the classical books principles. The main sports events is being done is the
cricket ,football tennis and car race.

I have given the prediction for car race based on tarot cards . it is very easy
method and requires not much detailed calculation.

For the tennis matches the same principles what is applied for the cricket,
football matches can be followed.

The beginning of the match is noted and this is done based on toss or some times
even when the first ball is bowled. Both will work out.

Classification of the house-

First house- the beginning of the match, first few five over ,toss, walking of
umpires in to the field.

Second house- the roar of the crowd, communication between the players the
drinks break, the understanding between the players the altercation and light
for the games. the commentators

Third house- running between the wickets, next day in papers the head lines
news, the number of 4 and 6s .

Fourth house � the pitch the feelings of the players.

Fifth house is the luck of the players, the middle order batsman, just before
lunch break.

Sixth house- the fall of wickets, the loss of run rate and runout and injury in
the team.

Seventh house- there batting and there strengths.

8 th house � longevity of the match and past match analysis.

9 th house- the umpires and there judgements the captain of the team.

10 th house- the runs scored and overs per rate.

11 th house rewards in the game whether match is fixed or not.

12 th house � end of the match the last over the 12 th man ,players walking out
of the ground.

First House

Start of the match, toss, opening batting and first few overs of the match.

Second House

The money involved in the match, the howling and shouting of the audience, the
commentators, the communication between the team members.

Third House

The drinks & lunch breaks, the running between the wickets, the slips cordons,
the close fielding positions, dressing rooms, cellular phones, gloves and arms

Fourth House

The pitch, the quality of wicket, the participation of players, the beginning of
middle order, runs scored in terms of boundaries.

Fifth House

The luck of the team, number of sixes scored, the catches, century stand, think
tank of the team, coaching, net practice, new players and the future prospectus.

Sixth House

The scandals, bad decisions by umpires, match fixing, hurt retire of players,
misunderstanding among players, run outs.

Seventh house

The strength of the opposite team and their weakness.

Eight House

Longevity of match, completion of the match and play coming to the halt.

Ninth House

The management, coach, captain, vice captain, the spiritual side of the team -
the guru and swamis who bless the team.

Tenth House

The match process, the runs scored and the thrill of match and fall of wickets.

Eleventh House

Sponsors, the prize money, the man of the match, the media, ad revenues, the
hoarding income, ticket collection and strength of the crowd.

Twelfth House

End of match, last few overs of the match, prize distribution ceremony, batting
and loss of quickly wickets, post match interviews.

The reduced vimhshottari dasa can be used. If for one day match reduce in 50
overs divided by 12 signs so it will come approximately 4 overs.

For 5 days the vimhsottari dasa can be used.

Who will win the match is based on the

which seventh lord is strong.i use chandra and karkamsha lagna also
whose dasa and bhukthi in the last over is good.
the most important is the bhavat bahvam should be used for the time playing
second using the seventh house as the first house.

Brihaspati Gayatri, Vishwamitra/Gaathina Rishi Rig Veda 6.62.6