Chara dasa: Lords of Aq and Sc (Re: Software differences)-Contd..

Chara dasa: Lords of Aq and Sc (Re: Software differences)-Contd..
By Shree PVR Narasimha Rao

Parasara very clearly mentioned that one year should be added if the planet is exalted and one year should be debilitated if the planet is debilitated. Sri KN Rao ignores this exception. This particular chart is a very good example to study the two methods, because two planets are exalted and one planet debilitated.

If you use Parasara's rules mentioned by me in the previous mail, yes, Ketu should be the lord of Sc. However, we extend the rule that an exalted lord should be preferred to include debilitation too. If an exalted planet is preferred to a normal planet, we conclude that a normal planet is preferred to a debilitated planet. This is not mentioned by Parasara and is our inference.

We take Ketu to be debilitated in Ge for phalita dasas (dasas used for general results) and in Ta for ayur dasas (dasas used in longevity).

That is why the software takes Mars as the lord of Sc instead of debilitated Ketu when finding "Parasara's chara dasa". With Mars, we get 4 years (Mars is in Pisces). For Ketu, you may expect 7 years. If you select Ketu as the lord of Sc, JHora does give 7 years in "KN Rao's Chara dasa". But it gives 6 years in "Parasara's chara dasa", because it subtracts one year due to Ketu's debilitation. For the benefit of those who want to compare various options, I am giving 4 different calculations of Chara dasa below.




---------------------
Using KETU as the lord of Sc:
---------------------

Chara dasa of K.N.Rao (modified version of a phalita rasi dasa):

Maha Dasas:

Vi: 1955-01-18 (21:40:01) - 1963-01-18 (22:57:08)
Li: 1963-01-18 (22:57:08) - 1964-01-19 (5:03:08)
Sc: 1964-01-19 (5:03:08) - 1971-01-19 (0:03:28)
Sg: 1971-01-19 (0:03:28) - 1978-01-18 (19:09:44)
Cp: 1978-01-18 (19:09:44) - 1981-01-18 (13:34:33)
Aq: 1981-01-18 (13:34:33) - 1985-01-18 (14:16:15)
Pi: 1985-01-18 (14:16:15) - 1993-01-18 (15:31:22)
Ar: 1993-01-18 (15:31:22) - 2004-01-19 (11:16:48)
Ta: 2004-01-19 (11:16:48) - 2010-01-19 (0:11:34)
Ge: 2010-01-19 (0:11:34) - 2017-01-18 (19:16:16)
Cn: 2017-01-18 (19:16:16) - 2025-01-18 (20:33:22)
Le: 2025-01-18 (20:33:22) - 2032-01-19 (15:27:46)

Chara dasa of Parasara (a popular phalita rasi dasa):

Maha Dasas:

Vi: 1955-01-18 (21:40:01) - 1963-01-18 (22:57:08)
Li: 1963-01-18 (22:57:08) - 1964-01-19 (5:03:08)
Sc: 1964-01-19 (5:03:08) - 1970-01-18 (17:52:02)
Sg: 1970-01-18 (17:52:02) - 1978-01-18 (19:09:44)
Cp: 1978-01-18 (19:09:44) - 1982-01-18 (19:48:59)
Aq: 1982-01-18 (19:48:59) - 1987-01-19 (2:41:11)
Pi: 1987-01-19 (2:41:11) - 1996-01-19 (9:56:27)
Ar: 1996-01-19 (9:56:27) - 2007-01-19 (5:40:42)
Ta: 2007-01-19 (5:40:42) - 2013-01-18 (18:33:37)
Ge: 2013-01-18 (18:33:37) - 2020-01-19 (13:43:02)
Cn: 2020-01-19 (13:43:02) - 2027-01-19 (8:46:44)
Le: 2027-01-19 (8:46:44) - 2034-01-19 (3:59:29)

---------------------
Now, using MARS as the lord of Sc:
---------------------

Chara dasa of K.N.Rao (modified version of a phalita rasi dasa):

Maha Dasas:

Vi: 1955-01-18 (21:40:01) - 1963-01-18 (22:57:08)
Li: 1963-01-18 (22:57:08) - 1964-01-19 (5:03:08)
Sc: 1964-01-19 (5:03:08) - 1968-01-19 (5:38:33)
Sg: 1968-01-19 (5:38:33) - 1975-01-19 (0:48:21)
Cp: 1975-01-19 (0:48:21) - 1978-01-18 (19:09:44)
Aq: 1978-01-18 (19:09:44) - 1982-01-18 (19:48:59)
Pi: 1982-01-18 (19:48:59) - 1990-01-18 (21:08:24)
Ar: 1990-01-18 (21:08:24) - 2001-01-18 (16:49:34)
Ta: 2001-01-18 (16:49:34) - 2007-01-19 (5:40:42)
Ge: 2007-01-19 (5:40:42) - 2014-01-19 (0:50:56)
Cn: 2014-01-19 (0:50:56) - 2022-01-19 (2:07:16)
Le: 2022-01-19 (2:07:16) - 2029-01-18 (21:00:02)

Chara dasa of Parasara (a popular phalita rasi dasa):

Maha Dasas:

Vi: 1955-01-18 (21:40:01) - 1963-01-18 (22:57:08)
Li: 1963-01-18 (22:57:08) - 1964-01-19 (5:03:08)
Sc: 1964-01-19 (5:03:08) - 1968-01-19 (5:38:33)
Sg: 1968-01-19 (5:38:33) - 1976-01-19 (6:55:06)
Cp: 1976-01-19 (6:55:06) - 1980-01-19 (7:30:33)
Aq: 1980-01-19 (7:30:33) - 1985-01-18 (14:16:15)
Pi: 1985-01-18 (14:16:15) - 1994-01-18 (21:34:23)
Ar: 1994-01-18 (21:34:23) - 2005-01-18 (17:16:48)
Ta: 2005-01-18 (17:16:48) - 2011-01-19 (6:21:54)
Ge: 2011-01-19 (6:21:54) - 2018-01-19 (1:19:53)
Cn: 2018-01-19 (1:19:53) - 2025-01-18 (20:33:22)
Le: 2025-01-18 (20:33:22) - 2032-01-19 (15:27:46)

All the above calculations can re-created by everyone using JHora. If you have JHora 7.0, you can also get Iranganti Rangacharya's version of chara dasa (which has some similarities with Narayana dasa used in our tradition). In comparison, Narayana dasa (a generalization of chara dasa used heavily in our tradition) is as follows (taking Mars as lord of Sc):

Narayana Dasa of D-1 chart (a versatile phalita rasi dasa):

Maha Dasas:

Pi: 1955-01-18 (21:40:01) - 1964-01-19 (5:03:08)
Cn: 1964-01-19 (5:03:08) - 1971-01-19 (0:03:28)
Sc: 1971-01-19 (0:03:28) - 1975-01-19 (0:48:21)
Sg: 1975-01-19 (0:48:21) - 1983-01-19 (1:54:15)
Ar: 1983-01-19 (1:54:15) - 1994-01-18 (21:34:23)
Le: 1994-01-18 (21:34:23) - 2001-01-18 (16:49:34)
Vi: 2001-01-18 (16:49:34) - 2009-01-18 (18:03:16)
Cp: 2009-01-18 (18:03:16) - 2013-01-18 (18:33:37)
Ta: 2013-01-18 (18:33:37) - 2019-01-19 (7:28:12)
Ge: 2019-01-19 (7:28:12) - 2026-01-19 (2:40:37)
Li: 2026-01-19 (2:40:37) - 2027-01-19 (8:46:44)
Aq: 2027-01-19 (8:46:44) - 2032-01-19 (15:27:46)

As Narayana dasa is the progression of 7th house (instead of lagna) in this chart, the dasa sign is the progressed 7th house. So progressed lagna is the 7th from dasa sign. We judge Ar dasa using Li instead. Libra contains exalted 5th lord Saturn and is a great dasa. Taking Libra as lagna, Rahu in 3rd, Mars in 6th, exalted Jup[iter in 10th and Moon and Venus in 2nd promise victory, material success, fortune in career and wealth in this dasa. It was in 1983 that he got his first break (as soon as Aries dasa started). Aries dasa saw his growth. Especially, Aq antardasa in Ar dasa (Aq is 5th from Libra) was very important.

Narayana dasa starts from lagna or 7th, whichever is stronger. Lagna is the seat of Brahma and 7th house is the seat of Shiva. Narayana resides in the stronger of the two and Narayana dasa starts from the stronger of lagna and 7th. There are 3 different progressions used for movable, fixed and dual signs. More details can be found in "Narayana Dasaa" book by Pt Sanjay Rath. A lot of free material can be found in the files section of vedic-astrology yahoogroup too.

May Jupiter's light shine on us,
Narasimha

> dear Narasimha,
>
> thanks for the explanation. You are right in saying the rules are
> complicated.
>
> With the data I presented:
>
> Kevin Costner
> Tuesday, January 18, 1955 9:40:00 PM
> Actor
> Source: BC, Rodden Data News #37/AA
> Lynwood, California
> Time Zone: 08:00 (PST)
> Longitude: 118� W 12' 38"
> Latitude: 33� N 55' 49"
>
> If I use the Parasara rules as listed below should not Ketu be
> lord of Sc?
>
> When I use the Parasara Chara option in JH I am getting 4 years
> istead of 7. If I manually choose Ketu as lord of Sc I get 6 years
> instead of 7.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tom

Chara dasa: Lords of Aq and Sc

Chara dasa: Lords of Aq and Sc By PVR Narasimha Rao

Jaimini's rules dealing with the sources of strength for judging the lords of Aq and Sc are pretty complicated. The rules taught by Pt Rath for judging the lords of Aq and Sc in Narayana dasa use several additional sutras of Jaimini not considered by Sri KN Rao. I used Pt Rath's interpretation in all the three chara dasa variations given in JHora.

I do realize that I should have strictly used Sri KN Rao's rules, whether I agree with them or not, in "KN Rao's Chara dasa". This variation of chara dasa was added in my software as an after-thought, as I prefer Maharshi Parasara's chara dasa to Sri KN Rao's chara dasa. Moreover, most users of my software use Narayana dasa rather than chara dasa (until now anyway). So "KN Rao's Chara dasa" given in JHora may not have been perfected yet. Thanks for pointing this out. In the next release, I will fix this.

* * *

Whether the strength calculations done by JHora match what one gets using the rules in Sri KN Rao's book strictly or not is certainly an issue (and I WILL take care of it in the next release), but there is a bigger issue. The issue is: Are the rules given by Sri KN Rao perfect or do they have some missing links?

Not only do I think that the rules Sri KN Rao gave are incomplete based on all the rules taught by Jaimini in his cryptic "Jaimini Sutram", but they are incomplete even compared to the simpler and more direct set of rules taught by Maharshi Parasara in BPHS (in the chara dasa section).

From this point of view, the option I give in chara dasa in JHora to manually change the strength judgment made by software can be useful to researchers.

I am not dogmatic and do not suggest that I or Pt Rath is 100% correct in the rules to judge the stronger lord of Aq and Sc. But, at the same time, it is reasonable to think that the rules taught by Sri KN Rao regarding the lords of Aq and Sc are imperfect too.

* * *

Pt Sanjay Rath is essentially like those scholars whose conversation Sri KN Rao over-heard in a train. Pt Rath is from a traditional family in Orissa (a state that borders the north-eastern corner of Andha Pradesh state, where Jaimini's teachings are truly alive). He learnt Jaimini Sutram and several rasi dasas of Jaimini from his grandfather and uncle.

As a student, I had full access to him (and did not have to overhear his conversation in a train and figure out the rules) and yet it took me a few months and many charts to completely comprehend all the rules used in judging the stronger lord of Aq and Sc for the purpose of Narayana dasa! If somebody says that he figured out the rules of strength from a conversation overheard in a train, I will be extremely skeptical. It is like solving a ten-variable problem using just two equations!

* * *

For those who are interested, here are the rules given by Maharshi Parasara in BPHS for the dasa years of Aq and Sc.

(1) If both the lords of the sign are in the sign itself, give 12 years.

(2) If one is in the sign and the other elsewhere, use the second lord (who is elsewhere).

(3) If both are elsewhere, check if they are joined by other planets. A planet joined by other planets is stronger than a planet who is alone.

(4) If both are alone are both are joined by other planets and hence equally strong, check the strengths of signs occupied by them. Movable signs are weaker than fixed signs and fixed signs are weaker than dual signs.

(5) If the signs occupied are equally strong, then take the lord who gives more years.

The rules taught by Pt Rath based on his interpretation of Jaimini Sutram contain the above rules with a few additional rules added in between. In our tradition, we do compare the degrees and minutes as mentioned in the final step given by Sri KN Rao, but we do that only when finding the stronger lord of Aq and Sc for the pupose of finding arudha padas. For the purpose of dasa years, we use the final step given by Parasara (i.e. the planet giving more years wins).

When one starts, it is a good idea to stick to one set of clearly defined rules. But, as one progresses, it may not be a bad idea to explore different ways.

May Jupiter's light shine on us,
Narasimha

Continuation Mail.

Dear Tom,

When mentioning Parasara's set of rules for finding the stronger lord of Aq and Sc for the purpose of chara dasa years, I missed out one rule.

> For those who are interested, here are the rules given by Maharshi Parasara in
BPHS for the dasa years of Aq and Sc.
>
> (1) If both the lords of the sign are in the sign itself, give 12 years.
>
> (2) If one is in the sign and the other elsewhere, use the second lord (who is
elsewhere).
>
> (3) If both are elsewhere, check if they are joined by other planets. A planet
joined by other planets is stronger than a planet who is alone.
>
> (4) If both are alone are both are joined by other planets and hence equally
strong, check the strengths of signs occupied by them. Movable signs are weaker
than fixed signs and fixed signs are weaker than dual signs.
>
> (5) If the signs occupied are equally strong, then take the lord who gives
more years.

Parasara also says that if one lord is exalted and the other is not, the exalted lord should be used. In our tradition, we use this rule after rule (3) above. If one accepts Parasara's word here, the next controversy is the exaltation and debilitation signs of nodes. Where are Rahu and Ketu exalted and debilitated? Scholars have disagreements. In our tradition, we use two sets of exaltation/debilitation signs. We use one set when judging strengths in phalita dasas and one set in ayur dasas (like Brahma dasa, shoola dasa etc).

May Jupiter's light shine on us,
Narasimha

Ashtakavarga Calculations References (Shree KN Rao)

Ashtakavarga Calculations References by Shree KN Rao
Many times I have clarified that the calculations given in the book of Dr.Raman are correct.

For many years there existed a controversy between the book of Sri C.S.Patel and Iyer and Dr. Raman’s. The late D.V.Subba Rao used astakvarga very well. In some long discussions I used to have with him, I told and proved to him through my calculations that subtle predictions came out of astakvarga prepared according to the calculations given in Dr.Raman’s book. I had to request Sri Subba Rao not to extend his aversion for Raman ayanamsha to other areas.And ofcourse there was some unexpressed hostility also in their relations.

I do not know about JHora as I do not have it. Then I have Windows 98 on which some programmes cannot be operated. I do not know if JHora can be operated on this.

It is true that there are many subtle calculations to be done in astakvarga manually and they have some secret uses which are not shared.

K.N.Rao.

Mrityu Bhaga

Mrityu Bhaga
Thanks for your comments on my chart. I just want to add my 2 cents regarding MB (mrityu bhaga) you mentioned.

> However,
> in Vimshottari, you are under Mer-Rahu. Some apprehension as Rahu
is
> in M.B. and Saturn is debilitated in the 8th. Please be careful.

For Rahu in Aquarius, 18th degree is considered mrityu bhaga (death- inflicting degree) according to classics. Dr KS Charak seems to think that this implies 17.5 deg-18.5 deg region is Rahu's MB in Aq. He takes MB defined in classics (18 deg) as a point and takes a one degree region around it.

In our tradition, we hold a view different from Dr Charak's. Mrityu bhagas are based on trimsamsa. Though a sign is divided into 5 unequal portions in normal trimsamsa, there are variations of trimsamsa in which a sign is divided into 30 equal portions.

We believe that Mrityu Bhaga is not a point, but a trimsamsa (degree). When classics say that the 18th degree is Rahu's MB in Aq, it means that the region starting at 17 deg and ending at 18 deg is the MB of Rahu in Aq. THAT is the "18th degree", afterall!!

Using mean nodes, my Rahu is at 16Aq54. Using the so-called true nodes, my Rahu is at 18Aq08. Either way, he is not in MB as per our definition of MB.

However, thanks for your advice and I will be careful. Rahu is bad for my health even in my judgment. Rahu is in 6th from Virgo lagna in my rasi chart. Rahu in 6th is good for material prosperity, but not for health. Moreover, Rahu is in the 8th house with Saturn in my D-6 (shashthamsa).

BTW, JHora can show if a planet is in MB. There are options to allow you to experiment with different definitions. For example, Rahu's MB in Aq is the 18th degree. You can choose to define it as 17-18 deg (recommended by me and Pt Rath) or 17.5-18.5 deg (recommended by Dr Charak) or 18-19 deg (added just for completeness)! Also, there are some differences between what Phala Deepika and Brihat Prajapatyam give and what other classics like Sarvartha Chintamani and Jataka Parijatam give. You can choose either definition in JHora.

May Jupiter's light shine on us,
Narasimha



Each planet has one specific degree as its Mrityu Bhaga (death-inflicting degree) in each sign.

For Rahu, MB in Aq is the 18th degree. For Moon, what you said is correct, i.e. MB in Aq is the 5th degree, if one goes by Phala Deepika. If one goes by Jataka Parijatam and Sarvartha Chintamani, Moon's MB in Aq is the 20th degree.

For those who understand C and C++ computer languages, here are the complete tables defining the MB of each planet in each sign:

// As per Jataka Parijatam and Sarvartha Chintamani:
double MrityuBhagaDegree1 [] [NUM_RASIS] =
{
// Ar Ta Ge Cn Le Vi Li Sc Sg Cp Aq Pi
{ 20, 9, 12, 6, 8, 24, 16, 17, 22, 2, 3, 23 }, // Sun
{ 8, 25, 22, 22, 21, 1, 4, 23, 18, 20, 20, 10 }, // Moon
{ 19, 28, 25, 23, 29, 28, 14, 21, 2, 15, 11, 6 }, // Mars
{ 15, 14, 13, 12, 8, 18, 20, 10, 21, 22, 7, 5 }, // Merc
{ 19, 29, 12, 27, 6, 4, 13, 10, 17, 11, 15, 28 }, // Jup
{ 28, 15, 11, 17, 10, 13, 4, 6, 27, 12, 29, 19 }, // Ven
{ 10, 4, 7, 9, 12, 16, 3, 18, 28, 14, 13, 15 }, // Sat
{ 14, 13, 12, 11, 24, 23, 22, 21, 10, 20, 18, 8 }, // Rahu
{ 8, 18, 20, 10, 21, 22, 23, 24, 11, 12, 13, 14 }, // Ketu
{ 23, 24, 11, 12, 13, 14, 8, 18, 20, 10, 21, 22 }, // Mandi
{ 1, 9, 22, 22, 25, 2, 4, 23, 18, 20, 24, 10 } // Asc
};

// As per Phala Deepika
double MrityuBhagaDegree2 [] [NUM_RASIS] =
{
// Ar Ta Ge Cn Le Vi Li Sc Sg Cp Aq Pi
{ 20, 9, 12, 6, 8, 24, 16, 17, 22, 2, 3, 23 }, // Sun
{ 26, 12, 13, 25, 24, 11, 26, 14, 13, 25, 5, 12 }, // Moon
{ 19, 28, 25, 23, 29, 28, 14, 21, 2, 15, 11, 6 }, // Mars
{ 15, 14, 13, 12, 8, 18, 20, 10, 21, 22, 7, 5 }, // Merc
{ 19, 29, 12, 27, 6, 4, 13, 10, 17, 11, 15, 28 }, // Jup
{ 28, 15, 11, 17, 10, 13, 4, 6, 27, 12, 29, 19 }, // Ven
{ 10, 4, 7, 9, 12, 16, 3, 18, 28, 14, 13, 15 }, // Sat
{ 14, 13, 12, 11, 24, 23, 22, 21, 10, 20, 18, 8 }, // Rahu
{ 8, 18, 20, 10, 21, 22, 23, 24, 11, 12, 13, 14 }, // Ketu
{ 23, 24, 11, 12, 13, 14, 8, 18, 20, 10, 21, 22 }, // Mandi
{ 1, 9, 22, 22, 25, 2, 4, 23, 18, 20, 24, 10 } // Asc
};

May Jupiter's light shine on us,
Narasimha
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--- In JyotishGroup@yahoogroups.com, Praveen Kumar
wrote:
> Wonderful Narasimha ! You have done a yeoman service for the
astrological community, for the humanity at large. Today I saw your
horoscope in my records (after several years) where TOB is given as
17:50. It gives Taurus Navamsa but I feel, it should be Aries as you
don't seem to have any marital problems. Then TOB comes around
17:43. It may be a bit earlier also.
> Your Aqu chara dasa will start shortly (Apr 2005). Here AK is
having connections with AmK, PK, DK and 5th lord, all. 10th house
from Aqu too is good. Hence, it should bring you glory, wide
acclaim. However, in Vimshottari, you are under Mer-Rahu. Some
apprehension as Rahu is in M.B. and Saturn is debilitated in the
8th. Please be careful.
>
> I take this opportunity to wish you everything the best in years
ahead and wish the God to bless persons like you with peace,
prosperity and happiness.
>
> Praveen Kumar (Mumbai, India)

Some views on Prasna

Prasna

by
Narasimha P.V.R. Rao

There are many rules and approaches in prasna. But, at the end, prasna is all about your connection with god. If it is strong, you will get an answer. When god wants to speak to you, he speaks in the language you understand and using the prototypes you expect.

I used to argue with Pt Sanjay Rath on whether prasna chart should be cast for the time queror posed the prasna or when astrologer cast the chart and analyzed it. My father takes the time when queror decided to pose a prasna and makes a chart for that time.

But Sanjay ji does not care about when the queror thought of the prasna and posed prasna. For him, the moment he starts analysis is important. He makes a chart for that moment. If a prasna was posed at 2 pm but he analyzed it at 5 pm, he makes the chart at 5 pm.

Sanjay ji and I had a debate on this on vedic-astrology list a couple of years back.

I saw my father making excellent predictions with his approach. I also heard from other students of Sanjay ji about Sanjay ji's prowess in prasna and saw it to an extent when he was in US. I was thinking along the lines that prasna is a highly subjective area of astrology and god gives answers if He wants, irrespective of the techniques used.

One interesting thing happened when Sanjay ji was at my house, which re-inforced this view. A lady came for help regarding her elder sister's child. Sanjay ji used a prasna to guess the problem and suggest a solution. His analysis was spot on (though we did not tell him anything beforehand to see how well he will guess). However, at the end, we discovered that my computer's time was off by 12 hours and hence the chart cast was wrong by 12 hours! Yet, Sanjay ji's diagnosis of the problem was spot on.

All the theoretical debates on whether chart must be cast for the time of the birth of the question or the posing of the prasna or the time of prasna analysis were answered the moment I saw an amazing reading of a chart cast based on a totally wrong prasna time (using any definition). This suggests to me that prasna is very subjective. If god wants to answer one's question, He will answer irrespective
of the prasna chart used.

It seems to me like prasna is not as scientific and objective as natal horoscopy.

* * *

There was a discussion on ashtamangala prasna a while back.

When Pt Sanjay Rath came to New Jersey in August 2003, we did an ashta mangala prasna. A close relative of mine had just bought a house and moved in that week. They had a house warming party that evening and Sanjay ji and several of his students were among the guests.
Sanjay ji and we (his students) sat down around the room and did an ashta mangala prasna. We used the actual rising sign at that time in the analysis. We took into account several nimittas. An example was an half-open closet in the direction corresponding to Capricorn.
Another example was a girl in black dress coming into the room and leaving immediately, as soon as we talked about Saturn in the chart showing the previous owner of the house.

Sanjay ji concluded from the prasna and nimitta analysis that the previous owner left the house in distress and in a desparate situation. It was correct. The house was 4 years old and the first owner was evicted as she lost job and could not pay mortgage for several months. There were a few other things Sanjay ji found and they were correct. There were some indications about the future given based on prasna and some remedies suggested.

* * *

We will do our monthly Full Moon Satya Narayana Vratam tomorrow (Feb 23) night, during 7 pm-10 pm. You are most welcome to attend the vratam and have prasadam for dinner. Please call 508-839-1218 for directions.

Shortly after the vratam, version 7.0 of Jagannatha Hora software will be released. You will have access to a lot of new features in the free version. Please wait for an announcement tomorrow night.

May Jupiter's light shine on us,
Narasimha

Sri V. Subrahmanya Sastri a great scholar-translator

Yahoo! Groups : JyotishGroup Messages : Message 4930 of 4942:

Sri V. Subrahmanya Sastri a great scholar-translator

Having affirmed that Sri V.Subrahmanya Sastri's translation of many classics is the best as well as the first in English, let me write a bit on this.


I have in my personal collection many books in Sanskrit, Telugu, Hindi and English, some of which have never been published and are available in manuscript form, some very old books which have haven't been reprinted again, and of course, books by modern authors. I have taken great pains in acquiring these books,manuscripts etc and taken still greater interest in studying these. My unbiased assessment of modern translations is that they are hopelessly lagging behind in comparision to the earlier translations by Sri V. S. Sastri.


Infact some seem to be bad imitations or at times even plagiarism done by people who seem to be neither scholars of astrology nor Sanskrit or even good at English! A man who combined great scholarship in astrology and samskrita with an excellent command over English is the late Sri V. S. Sastri. What I am writing here is not based on any direct knowledge or acquaintance with this scholar (as he belonged to a distant generation) but is what I could piece together from his works.


Son of the late Sri S. Venkatarama Sastriar, panditabhushana Sri V. S. Sastri retired as Asst Secretary to the Govt of Mysore and dedicated most of his life to translating classics of astrology. Most of his translations are more than mere translations as he often included copious explanatory notes and *some* examples too. His notes are fit to be caled a commentary, though he never claimed them to be so. In comparision we have *some* modern authors who write unimpressive comments (in even more unimpressive English), comments
that betray their ignorance of the Sanskrit language as well as their pseudoscholarship (I am not writing off all translators, but some). Writing commentaries and translating a classic is not for all. Such translations with unimpressive commentaries(?) have unfortunately been the only source for long for our generation of English speaking astrologers with nearly no knowledge of Samskrtam. It may be a good idea to trace Sri Satri's descendants and reprint these excellent works again.


A lesser known fact is that Sri M. Ramakrishna Bhat, whose works like the 'Brhat Samhita', 'Prasnapadavi or Essentials of Hoarary Astrology' and 'Fundamentals of Astrology' are reasonably popular, actually assisted Sri Sastri in some of his translations. Though Sri M. Ramakrishna Bhat is a sanskrit scholar (having worked as lecturer in Sanskrit & Superintendent of Indian languages, St. Joseph's college, Bangalore and retired as HOD, Sanskrit Dept, Hindu college, Delhi University), he is not an astrologer in the sense that Sri Sastri is.

Between 1915 and 1950s, Sri V. S. Sastri brought out many works and their revised editions. To my knowldge only his 'Jataka Parijata' is reprinted now, by Ranjan publications. His self-published books are of better quality print and paper! The edition of Brhat Samhita that I have is of 1929 and stilllooks and feels better than many newer books, not to speak of the contents. He had translated most classics except the BPHS & Jaimini Sutras. For various reasons, he chose to translate the 'Jataka Parijata' when he had to choose between translating JP and BPHS. Some of his translations/commentaries are:


Brihat Jataka
Brihat Samhita
Phala Deepika
Uttara Kalamrita
Horasara
Jataka Parijata
Jataka Tattva
Jatakadesa Marga
Sripatipaddhathi
Prasnajnana
Jataka Alankara
Shatpanchasika
Sanketa Nidhi


Someone from Bangalore should try to trace his descendants and urge them to republish these books. Or perhaps a publisher looking for high quality translations could also do this, instead of publishing plagiarised works or bad imitations or books by 'ghost' authors whose very existence is in doubt!



Regards,
Satya Prakash

Bhava and Pada: Why those names?

Yahoo! Groups : JyotishGroup Messages : Message 4913 of 4942
Bhava and Pada: Why those names?

The houses are called "bhavas" in Sanskrita and arudha padas are also called "padas" in short. Why those names? What is the link?

Just think for a minute!

The word "pada" means many things. One of the meanings is "word".

The word "bhava" means many things. One of the meanings is "meaning or purport". Another meaning is "feeling".

What is the link between word and meaning? To borrow the terminology I used regarding houses and arudha padas, "word" is a tangible and "meaning" (which can be a feeling or thought that the word is intended to represent) is an intangible. Let me elaborate.

We may want to express a concept or idea or thought or feeling. That is the "bhava". Actually, bhava comes from the dhaatu bhoo, which means "to be" or "to exist". The most basic meaning of bhava is "one that exists". The idea or concept or thought or feeling we want to express is an intangible and it exists within us. We find a word to express it and then it becomes tangible and manifests in such a way that the world can perceive it. The word or the tangible manifestation is the "pada".

Without the words, the world cannot perceive our feelings.

Just as words (padas) are the manifestation of feelings or thoughts or some intnded meanings (bhavas), arudha padas are the
manifestations of the matters shown by bhavas. Only they can be perceived by the world.

Recall what I said - houses show the unmanifested truth or the potentiality. It is intangible and internal (just as feelings are). Padas are the manifestation and are tangible (just as words representing feelings are).

Thus, the meanings of the two words chosen by maharshis (bhava and pada) fit with the arudha pada usage theory taught by Sanjay ji.

May Jupiter's light shine on us,
Narasimha

Arudha Use and Definition

Arudha Use and Definition
Namaste friends,

There has been a lot of discussion today on Pt Sanjay Rath's teachings on arudhas. The "maya" or illusion thing in his teachings is a subtle point that may have been misunderstood by some . As Pt Rath does not seem to read this yahoogroup, I will try to clarify his views as understood by me, as one of his students.

Let me explain this with an example. The 5th house is supposed to show one's abilities. If you look at the 5th house in a person's D-10, for example, it can show the person's abilities. But, how do we define the abilities? How do we measure them? Are the awards won by an actor supposed to show his abilities? Is the promotion somebody got at work supposed to show one's abilities?

Similarly, the 4th house in D-24 shows learning. But, how do we define and identify learning? What exactly is learning? Does it mean going to school or college? Does it mean taking a course? Can learning take place without school or college or course?

Basically, the idea is that one's true abilities and true learning are hidden inside one and not visible to the world. The houses from lagna show various qualities of true self that is hidden inside the person. However, there are tangible and often meaurable ways in which these qualities manigest and these manifestations can be seen by the world.

The world cannot see, touch, feel and perceive one's true abilities or true intelligence or communication skills or happiness or learning etc. They are all "intangibles". And the world judges those things by observing certain tangibles that can be seen, touched, felt or perceived. For example, the awards, prizes and promotions one gets are tangible, observable and measurable. World associates them with one's abilities. The school one fgoes to, the course one takes etc are tangibles and often associated with learning. One's happiness from vehicle is intangible, but the vehicle itself one has is a tangible. World tries to judge the vehicular happiness from the vehicle. In reality, someone owning a scooter may be far happier with his vehicle than someone owning a BMW car.

Thus, qualities of true self that is hidden inside one are shown by houses from lagna and tangible things based on which the world gets a measure or sense of those qualities are shown by the corresponding arudhas.

Arudha literally means "the risen one". While one's true qualities are hidden inside one, the associated tangibles rise materially and become visible. Arudhas are not necessarily people's perceptions. They are tangible articles that form people's perceptions.

I'll try to give some examples later.

This is the way we use arudhas in our tradition. Of course, you may take it or leave it! As there is no clear dictum anywhere regarding the use of arudhas, I cannot debate this with anyone. I can only clarify how we use them.

* * *

The exceptions in arudha calculation are not Sanjay's creation as someone said. Several popular versions of BPHS contain them. Some commentaries on Jaimini Sutras also contain them.

The corresponding sutras are Jamini are 1.1.30-32: (1) yaavadeesaasrayam padamrikshaanaam (2) swasthe daaraah, and, (3) sutasthe janma.

There is no controversy in the first sutra. The 2nd and 3rd sutras are interpreted differently by scholars.

Swastha daarah means "if in swa, then daraah". Sutasthe janma means "if in suta, then janma".

The literal meanings of swa, daaraah, suta and janma are 1st, 7th, 5th and 1st. The coded meanings using katapayaadi coding are 4th, 4th, 7th, 10th.

Jaimini commentators like the great Neelakantha and Dr PS Sastri have mixed the literal meanings and coded meanings. They took the 4 words to mean 4th, 7th, 7th and 1st. In other words, 1.1.31 means that the arudha is in 7th if lord is in 4th and 1.1.32 means that the arudha is in 1st if lord is in 7th.

With due respect to Jaimini commentators who took this position, I find two big problems in this view:

(1) Jaimini said at the beginning of his classic that he would code all the numbers, rasis and houses in his sutras. To take some house numbers as coded and some as literal does not look logical.

(2) As per this interpretation, rules 1.1.31 and 1.1.32 add nothing new to what is said 1.1.30. They merely illustrate a couple of sub-cases. I find it absurd to think that Jaimini would waste two aphorisms to illustrate another aphorism. Jaimini is very terse with words. Jaimini uses a new sutra only to add some information.

For these two reasons, I reject the interpretation by Neelakantha and Dr Sastri.

Pt. Sanjay Rath's interpretation comes from our tradition. It uses the coded meanings of all the 4 words and does not mix coded and literal meanings. Moreover, his interpretation matches what was much more clearly taught by Parasara in the most popular versions of BPHS. So it is a very logical interpretation and I accept it.

* * *

Arudhas of various houses from various planets are allowed in our tradition, though they were not explicitly granted by classics. For example, 4th from Venus shows a certain thing and its arudha shows a tangible manifestation of that. The 10th from Moon shows a certain thing and its arudha shows a tangible manifestation of that. Especially, arudhas of various houses from Moon and Sun are popular along with arudhas of various houses from lagna. However, these are very subtle concepts and could easily be misunderstood. So we often do not talk about them and stick to arudhas of houses from lagna.

If someone says that he saw arudha of chandra lagna mentioned somewhere, I am not at all surprised.

May Jupiter's light shine on us,
Narasimha

Somnatha Drekkana

Somnatha Drekkana
There is a variation of drekkana called Somanatha Drekkana. This is different from the drekkana chart described by Parasara. You can find its computation in the beginning of 'Jaimini Maharishi's Upadesa Sutras' by Pt. Sanjay Rath or 'Jaimini Sutramritam' by Iranganti Rangacharya.

In our tradition, this is the chart used for seeing sexual drive.

The Somanatha Drekkana chart of the lady in question has lagna and Sun in Vi, Venus in Aq, Jupiter in Pi, Rahu in Ar, Mars in Ta, Ketu in Cn, Moon, Mercury and Saturn in Le.

The 3rd and 7th houses show initiative and desires. The 12th from them (i.e. 2nd and 6th houses) show lack of sexual desires and bachelorhood/virginity. Planets in 2nd and 6th house in this drekkana chart slow down the sexual drive and stop sexual activity.

Though the lady in question has Venus and Mars in almost exact samasaptaka, I do not think she will be sexually over-active. Venus is in the 6th house and Mars is in the 9th house.

Venus or other benefics in 2nd and 6th in Somanatha drekkana usually tone down one's sexuality. An excellent example is the divine couple - Ramakrishna Paramahansa and Sharada Mata. Ramakrishna Paramahansa had Mercury and Jupiter in 2nd and Venus in 6th in Somanatha Drekkana. His wife Sharada Mata had Venus in 2nd and Mercury and Jupiter in 6th. Theirs was divine and spiritual love and they were above tamasik physical love.

Her Somanatha drekkana makes me think that she is a normal lady. Mercury, Saturn and Moon in 7th from Venus give sexual vitality. Jupiter in 7th from lagna gives sexual desires within dharmik limits. Venus in 6th keeps passion in check. I am not concerned about her Venus-Mars samasaptaka in rasi chart.

May Jupiter's light shine on us,
Narasimha

P.S. Sastri

P.S. Sastri Jyotish, Author & Translator
From a note in one of his books, we learn that Prof. P.S. Sastri, M.A., Ph.D., D.Litt, was born on January 22, 1920. He holds degrees in English, Sanskrit, Telugu, Philosophy, Rigveda, Aesthetics & Coleridge, and Indian Philosophy. He is the retired head (1980) of the Department of English at the University of Nagpur. He is the author of nearly 60 books on literature, philosophy, English & Telegu, as well as the author and/or translator of a number of books on astrology. It is said the natural lifespan of man is 120 years. Sastri has reached but 2/3rds of that. In Kali Yuga, he is elderly yet brimming with wisdom & experience. Most people do not live long enough, do not have good enough health in their final years, to attempt what Sastri has attained. In Prof. Sastri, we glimpse what the world could be like, if we lived just a few years more.

On pages 77-78 of Tried Techniques of Predictions & Some Memoirs of an Astrologer, K.N. Rao says, "Parasara has given 55 dashas & Jaimini 44 according to P.S. Sastri whom I rate as the best living astrologer of our decades. He was trained in the Vedas from childhood and can speak extempore in Sanskrit for four hours without notes. He is a double Ph.D. and he was the head of the department of English in Nagpur university. His English translation of Jaimini Sutras is the best I have seen. Yet, he has the modesty to say somewhere in the book that astrology has to be learnt from the right guru as he found many sutras to be too terse."

September, 2004: I hear that Prof. Sastri has passed away. It is a great loss.

www.astroamerica.com

----------------------------------------------------------------
Namaste friends,

Sri P.S. Sastry is one of the greatest astrology scholars of the last few decades.

If you are interested in his birthdata, here it is:

Date: January 22, 1920
Time: 11:06:00
Time Zone: 5:30:00 (East of GMT)
Place: 80 E 35' 00", 16 N 15' 00"
Lagna: 25 Pi 40
Moon: 19 Cp 44

Notice the D-24 chart, which shows learning according to Parasara. It has Pisces rising, Mercury in own house in 4th and Jupiter in own sign in 10th! Bhadra and Hamsa yogas apply in D-24.

The 8th house of D-24 has an excellent raja yoga involving 5th lord Moon and 9th lord Mars. This raja yoga in the 8th house in D-24 shows excellent occult knowledge.

May Jupiter's light shine on us,
Narasimha

In Yahoo!JyotishGroup
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Vargas and Dasa Systems - Lookup tables

Yahoo! Vargas and Dasa Systems - Lookup tables
From Shree PVR Narasimha Rao
Namaste friends,

Here is a list of vargas and matters seen in them. Parasara's BPHS is the source.

(1) Rasi (D-1): Existence at the physical level
(2) Hora (D-2): Wealth and finances.
(3) Drekkana (D-3): Siblings.
(4) Chaturthamsa (D-4): House, properties and fortune.
(5) Saptamsa (D-7): Children and grandchildren.
(6) Navamsa (D-9): Spouse, marriage and dharma.
(7) Dasamsa (D-10): Career and activities in society.
(8) Dwadasamsa (D-12): Parents and grandparents.
(9) Shodasamsa (D-16): Vehicles, luxuries, comforts and discomforts.
(10) Vimsamsa (D-20): Upasana and spiritual progress.
(11) Chaturvimsamsa (D-24): Learning and education.
(12) Nakshatramsa (D-27): Sub-conscious strengths and weaknesses, sub-conscious impulses.
(13) Trimsamsa (D-30): Evils and punishment, papa purusha (sub-conscious "evil person" embedded in each person's existence).
(14) Khavedamsa (D-40): Inherited karma from maternal side.
(15) Akshavedamsa (D-45): Inherited karma from paternal side.
(16) Shashtyamsa (D-60): "All matters" (according to Parasara)

There are additional vargas taught by others (e.g. D-5, D-6, D-8, D-11, D-81, D-108, D-144). There are also variations of some of the above charts (e.g. D-2, D-3, D-9, D-30) which are used for specific purposes. But, the above 16 charts are sufficient for most common purposes.

Each house has tens of meanings given in classic. Out of them, take the meaning that is relevant to the matters associated with the divisional chart you are using.

Regarding dasas, there are tens of them. But nakshatra dasas are the easiest to use. The following are the most useful nakshatra dasas and conditions for their applicability. Again, the source is Parasara's BPHS. I am giving the percentage of charts where the dasa is applicable in brackets.

(1) Vimsottari dasa (100%): No conditions of applicability
(2) Panchottari dasa (0.7%): Applicable if lagna is in Cancer in rasi and dwadasamsa.
(3) Sataabdika dasa (8%): Applicable if lagna is in "vargottama"
(4) Chaturaseeti sama dasa (8%): Applicable if 10th lord is in 10th
(5) Dwisaptati sama dasa (16%): Applicable if lagna lord is in 7th or if 7th lord is in lagna
(6) Shashtihayani dasa (8%): Applicable if Sun is in lagna
(7) Dwadasottari dasa (16%): Applicable if lagna is in an amsa of Venus [note: I did not find this dasa working consistently]
(8) Ashtottari dasa (25%): Applicable if (a) Rahu is in a quadrant or trine from lagna lord, but not placed in lagna and (b) birth occurred in Sukla paksha in night time or in Krishna paksha in day time.
(9) Shodasottari dasa (50%): Applicable if lagna is Moon's hora and it is Krishna paksha or if lagna is in Sun's hora and it is Sukla paksha.
(10) Shattrimsa sama dasa (50%): Applicable if lagna is Moon's hora and it is night time or if lagna is in Sun's hora and it is day time.

There are many other dasas like Yogini dasa, Kalachakra dasa, Narayana dasa, Chara dasa, Trikona dasa, Drigdasa, Yogardha dasa, Moola dasa, Sudarsana chakra dasa etc. But the most applicable nakshatra dasa (from among the ten dasas listed above) can always be the first dasa to try.

May Jupiter's light shine on us,
Narasimha
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BPHS various varanasi editions By Shree KN Rao

Yahoo! Groups : JyotishGroup Messages : Message 4009 of 4067
BPHS various varanasi editions By Shree KN Rao

Let me add something to the very scholarly note of Sri
Satya Prakash.
Late J.N. Bhasin who woked in the Indian Defence Accounts
was a Sanskrit scholar and he compared many of such
Parashara texts and was firmly of the opinion that the
Venkatesh Press version which was the first to come to out
in Hindi was very authentic and dependable and also
different in context.
For instance, Mr Bhasin took the fifth, seventh and ninth
aspects of Rahu invariably and supported it by referring to
the Venkatesh Press edition.
The Varanasi editions I have talked of are the same that
have been mentioned here, by first Sitaram Jha, then
Devichand Jha and then finally Ganesh Dutt Pathak. There
was fourth one also by Achyutananda Jha. ( The correct
spelling is JHA)
There was a protracted litigation about copyright as
after the death of Sitaram Jha the later editions by others
were said to be plagiarisms.
Interestingly if you do a comparative study of these
editions you will find some differences in the contents of
even of the Jaimini pieces.
Out of the these three, Sitaram Jha, Devi Chand Jha and
Ganesh Dutt , it is the last Ganesh Dutt whose
understanding of the predictive elements of Parashara were
said to be superior as he was the one person who instead of
merely translating the Parashara text could have given some
illuminating commentar as well.
Out of these three, Ganesh Dutts son carried on the fine
interpretative tradition of his father in his translation
(which becomes a very good commentary also in parts) of
Jatak Tattwam of Mahadeva.
But when it comes to a commentary on Jatak Tattwam the
best one was by his son published from some city in Madhya
Pradesh, perhaps Ratlam.
Coming back to the Jhas of Varanasi do not forget that
they were from Darbhanga in Bihar and were Maithili
Brahmins who were encouraged by the Maharaja of Darbhanga
to popularise astrology through the magnificent astrology
wing he had during his time.
In fact, during my Patna days, I saw many Jhas, the last
of the suriving Darbhanga astrologers prepare horoscopes
in details. What use they had made of Jaimini is not
known to me but they invariably prepared in the horoscopes
they cast, seven Karakas of Jaimini only and put
Karakamsha in the birth chart and not in navamsha as Dr.
Raman did.
Later, I saw in the Jaipur and Rajasthan cast horoscopes
als out seven karakas and Karakamsha put in the birth chart
and all the karakas put in the nnavamsha and described as
swamsha.

Darbhanga was such an attractive centre of astrological
education and the only in eastern India after Varanasi,
that Hanuman Shastri the best known astrologer of Orissa in
the seventies and eighties, studied here. When I met
Hanuman Shastri in Jagannath Puri in 1985, he talked in
beautiful Hindi and I asked him could he be so fluent in
this language. He told me he had all that education in
Darbhanga univesity where he did five year course in
astrology as there were no such teaching centres in Orissa.
It was the great vice chancellor, Madan Mohan Malviya that
had succeeded in attracting such scholars from all over
India including S.Radhakrishnan, later president of India,
to Varanasi University.
Before Sitaram Jha there was the famous Ram Yatan Ojha
also from Darbhanga and later Gopesh Kumar Ojha etc. All
these people spread all over north from Varanasi to
Rajasthan.
As far as I know out of all these only Sri Gopesh Kumar
Jha could translate these works both into Hindi and English
and had like those Jhas excellent Sanskrit scholarship.
But if you come back to the comparison of the Parashara
texts, there is a vast difference between Venkatesh press
edition and the Varanasi editions.
Again, among the Varanasi editions, the contents change
here and there and the divisions of chapters are also
different. Whether it was because of differences in the
manuscripts they used or a clever rearrangement to avoid
copyright complications is not known to me.


K.N.Rao.

BPHS various editions by Dr Satya Prakash Choudhary

BPHS various editions


by Dr Satya Prakash Choudhary
I will give a quick history of BPHS in modern times (its published
history), without going into other things. I don't know which
*Varanasi* edition Sri K. N. Rao is referring to. It has to be
either the second or third in my list. I will not refer to the
English translations or other regional ones because most of these
texts follow one or more of the following as these are among the
first published ones in any language.


1. The earliest *published* edition of BPHS
is 'BrihatParasaraHoraSaramsa' with Sridhara pandita's Sanskrit and
Hindi commentary. Published by Venkateswara Steam Press, Bombay.
(don't know its first publication date. I could procure a xerox copy
of the second edition dated 1951)

Subsequently three editions with Hindi commentary were published.

2. Sri Sitaram Jhoo's Hindi commentary ('Brihat Parasara Hora')
published by Master Kheladilal & Sons, Varanasi (published 1946)

3. Sri Devachandra Jhoo's Hindi commentary ('Brihat Parasara Hora')
published by Chowkamba Vidya Bhavan, Varanasi

4. Sri Ganesadatta Pathak's Hindi commentary published by Thakur
Prasad Pustak Bhandar.

These four are generally the main editions used by scholars in
comparing various editions.


Of these Sridhara's and Ganesadatta's versions are nearly similar
while the other two are similar in meaning, though there are
differences in the words used here and there.

Number of chapters in various editions:

While Sridhara Pandita's edition refers to 100 chapters (80 in
Poorvabhaga and 20 in Uttarabhaga) in the chapter 'Adhyayana krama'
(70th chapter in this edition) , the actual text itself has only
51+20= 71.

The Sitaram Jhoo edition has 91 chapters while Devachandra Jhoo
edition has 98 chapters.

It goes without saying that the order of chapters as well as content
to some extent, differ in these various editions. Discounting the
differences in words as long as the meaning/content remains similar,
I could say that Devachandra Jhoo edition has three additional
chapters.

a. Grahadisadhanadhyaya
b. Sutikadhyaya
c. Prasnadhyaya

The above three figure as chapters 4,9 and 84 in this edition.

The 'Avatarakathanadhyaya' is not part of both Sridharapandita's and
Ganesadatta's editions as also quite a few chapters. As you know,
this chapter deals with the ten avatars of Lord Vishnu and the
grahas.


Good news is that the so called Jaimini topics are part of all four
editions. Either Jaimini principles were already integrated into
Parasara's texts or they have always been part and parcel of what
goes by Parasara's name (I know that Narasimha strongly supports the
latter case). Unless an older version of the BPHS surfaces and this
version doesn't have the so called Jaimini topics, the ground for
the latter contention (that Jaimini is part of Parasara) shall
remain reasonably strong.


Inspite of the other differences, one thing might be possible (my
own speculation). The versions with 71 and 60 chapters are largely
similar in their contents and could perhaps be based on *older*
versions. The other two versions might have more
interpolations/alterations. This apart, all four could (in all
probability) probably be surviving traditions of BPHS with
alterations. One thing seems to be sure. There definetely is NO way
of concluding anything as Parasara's own words in HIS own language
as all editions have differences in language (words) at times.


I am deliberately refraining from writing more so as to avoid
unnecessary controversies. I am not against a scholarly debate on
this topic, but recognize the limitations of a group like this. All
debate/discussion can occur only between individuals who have gone
through all the editions and also have a good idea of the historical
rise and fal of various religious, cultural and intellectual
movements in Indian history as one can infer these indirectly in the
language used. For instance what does the Pancaratra agama leaning
of the author(s) (in certain chapters) suggest? That these versions
are post-pancaratra agama rise?


What are the possible inferences of certain Greek terms in the texts
such as Kendra, Panaphara, Apoklima, Sunapha, Anaphara, Dauradhura,
Kemadruma suggest? (esp against the background that it is hard to
find the Sanskrit root for some of these words!)Quite a few
possibilities exist here. Either the surviving versions are all
altered after the Yavanas exerted their influence on Hindu Jataka?
Or does one have to take this to even older times? Did Parasara
write anything at all? Or did Parasara's teachings survive through
successions of disciples who compiled the BPHS after considerable
time gaps? And has this original version been changed over a period
of time and hence none of the contents can be used for QUOTING
Parasara's opinion? It is good to explore various possibilities as
long as one remains intellectually honest and is willing to give up
favourite prejudices. This is the hardest one to overcome as
personal prejudices (religious, regional, intellectual,etc) can work
both consciously and unconsciously at an emotional level.


Perhaps it is good to take the ESSENCE of the text and not
everything literally. Afterall we are not dealing with the Veda
Samhita or Sruti. We are dealing with sastra.

Though there are knowledgeable people/scholars here, this list is
certainly not the place to have a major discussion/debate as there
are people at all levels.


Regards,
Satya Prakash

Post-script: Isn't it amusing when people quote a verse from
Parasara giving the chapter and sloka to support themselves (as if
only one edition/version existed)? Which edition are they referring
to? Most often it is the English translation published by either
Ranjan or Sagar. And then how many are aware that the two parts of
Ranjan publications BPHS in English have been translated by two
different people? The first part has been translated by Sri
Santhanam and the second one by one Gowri Shankar Kapoor (which I
think has been lifted from an earlier edition in Hindi). The Sagar
publications edition in English has been translated by Sri Girish
Chandra Sarma