Date: Dec 27, 2005 12:35 PM
Subject: [vedic-astrology] Ashtakavarga Graha Dasa ( C.S.Patel & Raman Suprarajama)
To: SJC-Africa@yahoogroups.com, vedic-astrology@yahoogroups.com
Dear Chandrashekharji & Other members,
Pls find below Mr. Ramans response mail which was not forwarded to other groups who were a part of the earlier series of mails.
Swee has been kind to forward Mr.Ramans reply with examples, though his mail didnt respond to my queries appropriately at all as to why the technique of bhuktis from his article is not at all working in the examples given by him. Further interesting points i will point out in his mail below. Before that I would narrate Shri C.S.Patels views, which upon the reminder of Respected Chandrashekharji I asked Chandubhai today (C.S.Patel)
I was scared to ask Chandubhai about Ashtakvarga Dasas since i had not read his Classic on the Ashtakvarga (1957), he instantly pointed out that he and Iyer didnt divulge this Dasa in their book. I asked him whats the classical reference behind it and he said Parasara. I replied that its not possible since all our list members have read Parasara's work and no one seemed to knew about it. He raised his voice saying that Arudhas are mentioned in Parasaras work but until he came out with his book on Arudhas no one seemed to talk about Arudhas, and how to use it. Only few people who can be counted on fingertips could know how to use it. I waited patiently for 15 mins quietly and finallys he said i should not concentrate on Ashtakvarga Dasas. He was also upset that i had not read his book (written in 1957) since the dasa had been mentioned in it.
Brief Mention on the Ashtakvarga Dasas in his book
Mention 1
Introduction
Pg XVII
The Ashtakvarga Sstem of Dasas: In this method the Shodhapindas of the planets are multiplied by 7 and the product is divided by 27. The quotient is Nakshatra yrs. These are subject to Mandala corrrections and reduction to a) planetary conjunctions and b) due to positions in the visible half of the birthchart. This has been fully worked out. In this system the periods contributed by the planets are variable according to the Shodhyapinda. The Antaras, their order and their periods also diifer in every horoscope
SJ Remarks: I think this grossly differs to the calculation pointed out by Mr. Raman unless what Patel in the above paragraph is talking about is Ayurdasas
Mention 2 in this book
Introduction Pg XXiii
The Ashtakvarga Dasa, though highly spoken of by ancient teachers of astrology is not availed of in practice now-a-days
Mention 3
I cant find it right now, though i read it in the afternoon.
In my conversation repeatedly i asked him if it is not AyurDasas that i am talking about and he said yes it is different and all matters can be seen but he wasnt impressed by this topic of discussion at all. He pulled me back to work on this new book for which Chandrashekarji i am going to take ur and others help from this group.
Now, below we find Mr. Ramans response to my queries, my comments on that
a) Although he says that he has used jhora but in the recent first 2 examples which i checked, the Sodya Pindas of Ven used by him is different to what Jhora gives, same issue in my 1st earlier mail i had pointed out in his published article. He didnt even address that
b) He hasnt replie to give explanation as to why Bhukti determinationa technique in his published article doesnt work.
c) He doesnt give classical reference or from where he learnt this technique.
d) He additionally gives some definition of Vivaha as just mere sex also that this dasa points out, now this was not published in the article in the magazine, which as the case maybe then my interest in this dasa after so much of pomp pomp on it has dwindled completely.
e) I shall try and maybe correspond with him now, though i have lost his email id, might ask Sushmita our old member since she had corresponded with him couple of times. In the mail forwarded by Swee his mail id was deleted, maybe i shall ask Swee about it.
Pls find below Mr.Ramans mail
Regards,
Sunil John
Mumbai
P.S: somehow after the first mail from PVR, there has been no response from him, maybe he has gotten busy with the Pooja
Warm regards,Raman Suprajarama----------------Dear Friends,I am glad that the article has aroused interest among the astrological family. It was father�s desire and advice that the article be written.A few important points have to be noted. The articles have been wrongly titled. The article appearing in our September 2005 issue is on Graha Dasa and that in our December 2005 issue is on Rasi Dasa.We can classify the Dasa systems broadly into two categories. They are Rasi Dasa and Graha Dasa. Vimshottari, Ashottari etc fall under Graha (Planets) Dasa and Chara, Sthira, Trikona etc fall under Rasi (Signs) Dasa.Ashtakavarga Dasa, either Rasi based or Graha based, further falls under Gochara section. There is a difference between a natal fixed horoscope analysis and a gochara analysis. I will not be going in detail about the differences in this mail, but will definitely be speaking about them in the upcoming SJC Conference 2006.Coming back to Ashtakavarga Rasi Dasa with respect the marriage, we need to first understand what �Vivaha� is. Vivaha simply put means marriage. But in actual terms, it is much more that mere exchange of garlands, rings or tying the knot. Vivaha can be understood as a complete acceptance and respect of a male and female in terms of mind, body, soul etc. Gochara section helps us to identify such scenarios which are reality in the illusory world.In the amarakosha, Vivaha comes under the Brahma Varga and not under Kshatriya or other Vargas. If it had come under Kshatriya Varga, the term Vivaha can be understood as a physical union for gratification of senses or for mutual benefit. In current times, Living Together relationships and the like fall under this category.Vivaha, falling under Brahma Varga, means more than this. A couple might have exchanged garlands and signed the marriage register, but this does not amount to Vivaha. For Vivaha to take place, a mutual acceptance of Brahmic attributes is essential.The following three examples might help in understanding the beauty of Ashtakavarga Rasi Dasa. Some have asked as to which Software I use for calculations. We use our own software. However, for the benefit of members, in the current email, I am using the values calculated using Jagannatha Hora of Narasimha Rao. The values are quite accurate and reliable.Example 1: Bill Gates, October 28, 1955 at 9:15:00 pm, SeattleThe Mahadasa periods are as follows (Chara Dasa):Ge: 10/28/1955 - 10/28/1959Ta: 10/28/1959 - 10/28/1964Ar: 10/28/1964 - 10/28/1969Pi: 10/28/1969 - 10/27/1976Aq: 10/27/1976 - 10/28/1981Cp: 10/28/1981 - 10/28/1985Sg: 10/28/1985 - 10/28/1993Sc: 10/28/1993 - 10/28/2003Li: 10/28/2003 - 10/28/2015Vi: 10/28/2015 - 10/28/2027Le: 10/28/2027 - 10/27/2036Cn: 10/27/2036 - 10/27/2040In the Navamsa, UL falls in Leo. The 2 nd house is Virgo and has the influence of Rahu and Ketu. The 7th house, Aquarius, is free of influences. Virgo becomes stronger. Sagittarius, Pisces and Gemini aspect Virgo and become eligible to facilitate marriage.Let us consider Sagittarius Dasa. The bhuktis are as follows:Li: 28-Oct-85 - 28-Jun-86Sc: 28-Jun-86 - 27-Feb-87Sg: 27-Feb-87 - 28-Oct-87Cp: 28-Oct-87 - 28-Jun-88Aq: 28-Jun-88 - 26-Feb-89Ps: 26-Feb-89 - 28-Oct-89Ar: 28-Oct-89 - 28-Jun-90Ta: 28-Jun-90 - 27-Feb-91Gm: 27-Feb-91 - 28-Oct-91Cn: 28-Oct-91 - 28-Jun-92Le: 28-Jun-92 - 26-Feb-93Vi: 26-Feb-93 - 28-Oct-93Sodya Pinda of Venus is 186 and there 3 bindus in the 7th house from Venus in Binna Ashtakavarga.186 * 3 = 558 mod 12 = 6 indicating Virgo. Virgo and its trines can give marriage. Vivaha is likely to have taken place in Pisces-Virgo ie between 26-Feb-93 and 28-Oct-93. The official marriage, however took place on January 1, 1994.Example 2: George W Bush, July 6, 1946 7:26:00 am, USACn: 6-Jul-46 - 5-Jul-56Le: 5-Jul-56 - 6-Jul-58Vi: 6-Jul-58 - 5-Jul-60Li: 5-Jul-60 - 5-Jul-69Sc: 5-Jul-69 - 6-Jul-78Sg: 6-Jul-78 - 6-Jul-87Cp: 6-Jul-87 - 5-Jul-93Aq: 5-Jul-93 - 5-Jul-00Pi: 5-Jul-00 - 5-Jul-06Ar: 5-Jul-06 - 5-Jul-10Ta: 5-Jul-10 - 5-Jul-12Ge: 5-Jul-12 - 5-Jul-13In Navamsa, UL falls in Scorpio. Sagittarius and Taurus become eligible. Sagittarius has Mercury and becomes more powerful. Pisces, Gemini and Virgo aspect Sagittarius and become eligible to facilitate Marriage.The bhuktis in Sagittarius Dasa are:Cn: 6-Jul-78 - 5-Apr-79Le: 5-Apr-79 - 4-Jan-80Vi: 4-Jan-80 - 4-Oct-80Li: 4-Oct-80 - 5-Jul-81Sc: 5-Jul-81 - 5-Apr-82Sg: 5-Apr-82 - 4-Jan-83Cp: 4-Jan-83 - 5-Oct-83Aq: 5-Oct-83 - 5-Jul-84Ps: 5-Jul-84 - 5-Apr-85Ar: 5-Apr-85 - 4-Jan-86Ta: 4-Jan-86 - 5-Oct-86Gm: 5-Oct-86 - 6-Jul-87Sodya Pinda of Venus I 73 and it has 4 bindus in the 7th from it.73 * 4 = 292 MOD 12 = 4 indicates Cancer. Cancer and its trines can indicate marriage. Cancer Bhukti could have given Vivaha (6-Jul-78 to 5-Apr-79). The official exchange of rings took place on Nov 5, 1977 (perhaps Kshatriya type) and Vivaha took place much later.Example 3: Male, December 4, 1978, 4.54 pm, BangaloreThe Mahadasas are as follows:Ta: 4-Dec-78 - 4-Dec-83Ar: 4-Dec-83 - 4-Dec-91Pi: 4-Dec-91 - 4-Dec-00Aq: 4-Dec-00 - 4-Dec-05Cp: 4-Dec-05 - 4-Dec-10Sg: 4-Dec-10 - 4-Dec-18Sc: 4-Dec-18 - 4-Dec-22Li: 4-Dec-22 - 4-Dec-34Vi: 4-Dec-34 - 3-Dec-44Le: 3-Dec-44 - 3-Dec-53Cn: 3-Dec-53 - 4-Dec-59Ge: 4-Dec-59 - 3-Dec-64In Navamsa, Taurus is UL. The 2 nd and 7th signs are Taurus and Libra. Taurus is influenced by Moon, but Libra is influenced by 2 planets, viz., Saturn and Mars. Hence, Libra becomes powerful. Aquarius, Taurus and Leo aspect the sign and becomes eligible to facilitate Marriage.Let us consider Aquarius Dasa. The Bhukti�s are as follows:Li 4-Dec-00 - 5-May-01Sc 5-May-01 - 4-Oct-01Sg 4-Oct-01 - 5-Mar-02Cp 5-Mar-02 - 4-Aug-02Aq 4-Aug-02 - 3-Jan-03Ps 3-Jan-03 - 5-Jun-03Ar 5-Jun-03 - 4-Nov-03Ta 4-Nov-03 - 4-Apr-04Gm 4-Apr-04 - 3-Sep-04Cn 3-Sep-04 - 2-Feb-05Le 2-Feb-05 - 4-Jul-05Vi 4-Jul-05 - 4-Dec-05SP of Venus is 87 and it has 5 bindus in the 7 th from it.87 * 5 = 435 MOD 12 = 3 indicates Gemini. Virgo, Sagittarius and Pisces aspect Gemini and can facilitate marriage.Vivaha took place in the month of August 2002 and the marriage took place in September 2002.In above example, the three charts give three different scenarios. Ashtakavarga Dasa beautifully identifies the Vivaha time in this illusory world. Please note that the Dasa system helps us identify the Brahmic marriage. In current times, marriage has no meaning and the system fails in identifying such marriages.Om Tat Sat,Raman SuprajaramaJaya JagannathaDear Raman,NamasteThis might have missed your attention.Love,SweeDear Chandukaka,As per what has been told to me, it is applicable in similar fashion.In his article on this, Mr.Raman didn�t indicate the reason why it is called Ashtakavarga Graha Dasha nor the source, infact since it is a Rasi Dasa, accordingly it should be called Ashtakavarga Rasi Dasha.In previous mail of 2 days back wherein I had sent 3 charts as examples, I had stated there that the bhukti technique is not working only Main Period technique is working.Speaking on marriage timing, since 1.5 yrs I am trying to get hold of a work which gives through mathematical model as to how to arrive at the marriage year, 100% success rate. It is reputed to be a very famous technique from a senior astrologer in Delhi. Unfotunately I have not been successful so farBest wishesSJChandrashekhar <sharma.chandrashekhar@gmail.com> wrote:Dear Sunil,Is this applicable to all Karakas in similar fashion? Did Raman Suprajarama indicate why it is called Ashtaka varga Graha dasha and the source? Appears to be more like Karaka dasha to me. Of course I! could be wrong. Did you see whether the Bhukti fits in with the method given for the first chart?Chandrashekhar.Sunil John wrote:Dear PVR,Sashtanga PranamMy Jhora is suddenly not working today giving MCS or MCF application error otherwise i would have attached charts & done more search on other charts. Pls ! find below rough notes that i prepared few days back with 2 chart examples. this dasa appeared in an article in Astrological Magazine and was written by Raman Suprajarama.Although here he has used it only to time Marriage, from what I remember this dasa has multiple uses if Karaka is changed & Arudha is changed (from what given here in this article) - A10 for career in D10 chart, this is as per what i remember what my village astrologer told me. Then the antars would start in different order as karaka would change.Also, I wonder if the dasa can be used! for general predictions along with SAV & PAV points to judge the result of dasa and antar in ones life.If you or anyone can point out how to remove the MCS application error so that Jhora starts again in my PC i shall be indebted, without that software i have been frustrated from morning. tried reinstalling several times but not working.best wishesSJMy notesAstakvarga Graha DasaPREMISEThe Dasa order in Ahstakavarga Graha Dasa scheme is similar to that of Chara Dasha �(SJ- in order to match with what Raman Suprajarama has given pls use Jhora and for Main Dasa order and duration just click to CHARA Dasa (Parasara Schem! e) � tested this on the 2 charts given by Raman in the Dec 05 AM mag & dasa order matches - KN Raos & Irangati's Chara dasa doesnt match with what Raman gave)Start dasa calculation from the day one was born e.g May 11th 1973Sign based dasaSome scholars of the opinion that Trikona based dasa can also be used as it denotes the four purposes of life (Dh! arma, ARtha, Kama and Moksha)The Bhuktis are calculated by considering the position of Venus in the RASI ChartEach Dasa period is Split into 12 equal parts, the 1st bhukti starts from the sign occupied by Ven and the remaining follow in the REGULAR order from that signStep 1:1. Find out the UL Lagna in D9.2. The 2nd house from UL indicates family here and 7th house indicates spouse. We need to consider the stronger of the two housesIf more planets are present in either of the houses that becomes stronger.If both houses contain equal number of planets (or no planets) then the one with Mer or Jup or its LORD becomes the strongest.If this condition is also not satisfied, then the nature of the sign is studied, dual signs are MOST powerful, fixed signs come next and moveable signs are the least powerful.Step 2The dasa of the sign arrived (Computed Sign) under STEP 1 indicates Marriage.It is also possible in the dasa of the signs aspecting the above Computed SignStep 3Such of those Rasis, arrived at in Step 2 (I think the ones aspecting the computed sign) which have more than 30 bindus in SAV can indicate marriage.Step 4The Sodya Pinda of Venus and! the number of bindus in the 7th from Ven in Prastharashtakvarga (PAV) are multiplied and the product is divided by 12. The remainder represents the reference sign. Marriage can take place in the Bhukti of this sign or its TrinesChart 1 From Dec 05 Astro MagChart 1: 30th Aug, 1979 at 4.18 am at 12N59, 77E35, Can Asc, SC Nav(Author Raman Suprajama proved thro this dasa that Marriage Happened in Feb 19, 2005 in Aq Dasa, he didn�t go into antars in this chart, he only went till Step 2 to show the dasa working, I think he uses Raman Ayanamsa which would be seen I think in Chart 2)Personal notes on Chart 11) chart from Dec 05 A.M Ma! g. Pg 10222) Marriage - 19th Feb 053) Nav ASc seems correct to what was given in the magAhstakvarga Graha DasaStep 1. In D9 Ul in Ge, 2nd from it is Cn and Sg is 7th, Cn has two plaents wehrea! s SG has none,so Cn is stronger and capable of giving marriageStep 2. Ta, Sc & Aq aspect this Computed sign which is Cancer, so all the 3 are capable of giving marriageStep 3: Also, the 3 signs arrived at which have moer than 30 bindus can give marriage but here none have more than 25 bindus, infact Aq which gave marriage has only 21 bindusSpecial note SJ: Aq has Ketu in it, which according to Jaimini - Ketu is capable of giving marriage stronglyStep 4: Sodya Pinda of Ven = 147 & PAV of Ven is 3both should be multiplied - 147*3=441 then divided by 12, remainder is 9 - So the remainder is 9which becomes SAgitarrius as the reference Sign, the marriage can take place in the bhukti of this sign or its trinesFinal note: Step 3 & 4 didnt work in actual practiceChart No 21) Chart from Dec 05 AM mag, pg 10222) chart Details: 18th Jan, 1962, 21 hrs 23 mins at 26 N 27, 74 E 38b) Nav Asc here is Virgo(thro jhora) but in mag it is Libra, I guess since thearticle is from Raman Suprajamana, he must be using Raman Ayanamsa3) Marriage in Jan 1999SJ Notes: If on! e doesn�t take the right ayanamsa then UL changes which is the key to this dasa, so one way to testing this technique could be using it on known charts and using two different ayanamsasa) Here take Raman Ayanamsa and then only Libra lagna in D9 is arrived tomatch what is given in Dec 05 AM mag article by Raman Suprajamab) Step1: UL comes in Cancer, 2nd from it is Le with mer and 7th from it is Moon in Cp, since both have equal number of planets, Le is taken since it has Mer (either Mer, Jup or its lord)Step 2: Signs aspecting Leo is AR, Libra and Cp - all 3 capable of giving marriageStep 3: SAV bindus - Ar is only 18, Li is 31 and Cp is 45, though Cp is more capable it didn�t give marriage whereas Aries/Aries gave marriage, maybe since Aries is 7th house of natal D9Step 4: Sodya Pinda of Ven=199 (whereas in magazine it is given 202) & 7th from PAV of Ven =1 (in mag it is 7). Multiply both = 199 (mag gives 1414)This 199 divide by 12, remainder is 7, so sign is Libra, so bhutki can be Libra and trines which is Ge or Aq, but infact bhukti was of Taurus - so technique doesn�t workSJ Notes: what Jhora gives as Sodya Pinda and number of bindus in Ven PAV, is completely differe! nt from what Raman Suprajaramas software is using, don�t forget to write to Virendra who knows Raman so as to know which software he is using ."Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" < pvr@charter.net> wrote:Namaste Sunil,I don't know of any software that gives it.If you share the definition of this dasa or give a reference, I can try to add it in my software (Jagannatha Hora). Give a practi! cal example also, if you can.Merry christmas and happy new year to you too!May Jupiter's light shine on us,Narasimha----------------------------------------------------------------Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.netFree Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.orgSri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org--------------------------------------------------------------------- Original Message -----From: Sunil JohnTo: ashtakvarga@yahoogroups.com ; Jyotish Group ; parasari_jyotish@yahoogroups.com ; srijagannath ; Varahamihira Group ; valist@yahoogroups.com ; Vedic Astrology ListCc: Narasimha Rao ; Narasimha RaoSent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 2:40 PMSubject: Ashtakavarga Graha Dasa - astro softwareDear Learned Members,Can anyone point out which astro software calculates the �Ashtakavarga Graha Dasa�Shall be most grateful.Btw, Merry Christmas to everyone & may the coming year be full of wonderful productive experiences.Regards,Sunil JohnMumbai
