Wednesday, November 09, 2005

Transits in Varga charts/Shri Sanjay Rath...Contd....

From: Sanjay Rath
Date: Nov 8, 2005 11:30 PM
Subject: Re: [vedic-astrology] Re: Transits in Varga charts/Shri Sanjay Rath

om namo bhagavate vasudevaya

Dear Vijaydas ji,
Namaste. The present mail is in black and the older mail is in blue.
You have not answered any of the questions in my previous mail, perhaps an oversight. So I will reproduce them again.
Question 1: Why do we need Drishti? And how do we understand the working of Drishti in real life terms.
Question 2: What is the explicit difference between Graha Drishti and Rashi Drishti?
Question 3: Where can the graha NOT have any Drishti what-so-ever?
Question 4: Does Drishti cause sambandha (relationship) and if so how?
Question 5: and for how long shall this sambandha caused by Drishti work? Is this forever right from birth till death or is this temporary over a period of time. If temporary how do we determine the working time?

Comments to other points are given below.

As i am flying to india, tomorrow morning, for a week's vacation,cannot address all your questions in detail.But will try.Please address my 3 queries.Unless we address those three queries,we are never going to reach any conclusion.

Rath: I shall patiently await your return, and when in India, please call me at 98104 49850 It will be a pleasure to meet with you.

Rath: Are there signs in the sky?

I do not have much differences here regarding your understanding.Also to me it is a model representing the link between Yogapurusha and Kalapurusha,as shri Chandrahari has rightly explained.Also Sun the natural atmakaraka or soul is the primary cause.But I have one difference.Kshethra and Rashi does not convey the same meaning ,though they are having similar boundaries.

Rath: I don't think you have read my mail. I will reproduce it again for a quick reference.You can see from the mail that you are saying exactly the same thing that I am saying and this is what the Rishi's have said for ages, so to say Chandrahari, your new guru said this and implying it wa said for the first time is wrong. It is well know to every student of Jyotish that rashi really weans weight and implies the amount of something. One of its sources is Rahu+Sikhi and so on which is besides the point. Kshetra is sphere of influence and has a different connotation altogether.

----------ref: previous mail----------

Rath: Are there signs in the sky? How are they created? from where did the rashi boundaries come? To my knowledge these signs are drawn solely on the basis of the movement of the Sun and the Sun alone is the master of all the rashi's. He then doles out duties to the grahas based on their abilities and nature and this is again based on proximity to power. Those close to him get kshetra (meaning areas of influence or governance or lordship like a feudal lord and not like the king) over signs adjoining his Leo/spouses (Moon) Cancer chamber.
Now coming to harmonics, how does lets say, Mars in Aries have harmonic with Saturn in Capricorn? OR let us say, how does Mars in Aries have harmonic with Venus in Taurus? Pleae explain so that I can understand what you mean by the use of the term harmonic

A planet has a desire and it can aspect only those Bhavas towards which it is Having a desire.
Rath: Where did you get this explanation from? An astrologer named Sanjay Rath!! has been teaching this and calling it Iccha shakti or desire. Is there a classical reference for this or are you going to follow the teachings of Sanjay Rath? He says that Planets represent animate beings and hence can also show Iccha or desire based on their aspects. So, you agree with me and have accepted this part of my teaching.
This is determined by Lagna.Without rising Lagna there is nothing in Jyotisha.
Rath: Lagna is the head. Now does the head show the desire or does the intelligence of the mind show the desire? A dead man also has a head (you can see this in any dead person as his head is also a part of the body). Does this head have desire? It is not the head that shows intelligence but the Paka Lagna that shows the intelligence - the animate lagna lord shows the human being alive and in action.
It is the HEAD -Limb of Kalapurusha.Lagna Navamsha does not show another HEAD.Why?Libra navamsha in Aries is not same as Libra navamsha in Gemini(I had given Kalyan Varma examples).Libra Navamsha in Aries can rise in the east only if Aries SIGN is rising.Similarly Libra Navamsha in Gemini can rise only if Gemini SIGN is rising.Rising Lagna becomes THE First Bhava.Is it possible otherwise Sanjayji!!!! .Then how can you study Libra navamsha in isolation.
Rath: Wrong. Lagna navamsa can show the head and in fact it can show physical head as well. For example, the following dictum:
1. If the Sun is in navamsa lagna the native shall have a big head
2. If the navamsa lagna is makara, then also the native shall have a big head
3. Ketu/Rahu in navamsa lagna (birth or janma is lagna) shall cause delivery with forceps [or surgery]...and so on
How do you explain all these dictum and so many more if you can't accept a navamsa chart i.e. how will the Sun be in navamsa lagna or svamsa.
What is Svamsa, Lagnamsa and Karakamsa? What are these terms for which complete chapters have been given in all classics?
...for example, look at my chart 7 Aug 1963, 9.15 pm, Sambalpur, India with Jupiter in Pisces in lagna and explain the circumstances of my birth. Can you do that?
Now can your good self think why Kalyan Varma, never explain any navamsha in isolation.
Rath: Kalyana Verma assumed that you have read the previous works of Varahamihira and other classics before you read his work. This is explicitly stated in Saravali. He only gave those portions which were either not there in the classic texts as a clear reference or clarified the position of Jyotish w.r.t Yavana Jataka (European Astrology) which had also arrived at the court at that time.

Also a planet is aspecting the 7th from itself due to an Astrological Reason.Seventh bhava shows our interactive environment.
Rath: Where did you get that 'interactive environment'? Can you give me the classical reference? If you cannot then I will give not only the reference but also the exact meaning and it is not 'interactive environment'.
Similar to Man and Woman - they have a desire to unite.
Rath: What about 'Man and Man' or 'Woman and Woman' and 'Man and Child' and 'Father and Son' and so on? How will they interact or unite? Seventh house??
For Poorna Chandra to happen, there is only one and only one physical possibilty.Sun and Moon should be longitudinally opposite.If Sun and Moon are 1/7 in a ''varga chart''(and not in Rashi chakra) it DOES NOT correspond to full moon.They have no mutual sambandha based on navamsha position ALONE.It learly shows Bhavas and Vargas are exclusive concepts.The confusion can be Attributed only to the similarity in span between a Rashi and Kshethra.
Rath: May I ask - Why it does not? Where is the classical reference for saying that tithi varga cannot happen? In fact there are clear dicta for 'Tithi Varga'. Are you aware of this term? For example there is the Santana Tithi explained in Prasna Marga and not only the method of calculating this Tithi varga is given but also results and Remedial measures are given for various Tithi Varga like Poorna Tithi and so on. So your information/knowledge in this aspect is lacking. Please read this.
There is a mathematical as well as philosophical(essence and purpose of Jyotish) part involved.Mathematics is not the reason.It is the frame that helps all of us to study Jyotish objectively.
Rath: Did anybody say this before I said this publicly in the lists - yes there were others like Bipin Behari andJagannath Bhasin but who listened to them? It is nice to note that we are on the same table here, as without Philosophy the essence of Jyotish is lost.
Mathematical part is used to understand the latent, astrological purpose.If a rule is set for an aspect it remains the same.It is outside the bracket of Kshethra/Navamsha.We cannot say a planet placed 20 degrees from each other can cast full aspect in Navamsha.
Rath: We can, provided we know what Aspect (assuming you mean Drishti when you use this word, which is a terrible translation really) means. It is the mathematics which is difficult to understand as we are used to elementary geometry in everything and are not prepared to think in abstract terms. Then even the mathematics becomes easy to understand. It is the philosophy which is easier to follow and not the mathematics. Thatswhy the arguments you have been giving against the use of navamsa as a chart are largely simple geometry and not philosphical.

Rath: Planets can conjoin in navamsa only if we are allowed to draw a navamsa chart.

Whether we draw another chart or not planetary inlfuences will remain.What we see in Navamsha is not a placement(Yuti).Rather a different influence.Placement is what we call as Kshethra influence.If two planets are conjoining they are Individually related to that sign.
Rath: Are we saying the same thing?? Can you give an example to show me the difference between what we are saying here?
So When we say Mars is in Aris, then Mars is Yuti Aries and is in Aries Kshetra and Mars in NOT in Aries Rashi!!! Is this what you are saying?? Can you tell me what are the results of Mars in Aries Kshetra and kindly give me the classical reference also for this which is different for Mars in Aries Rashi.

Rath:Mars in Aries have harmonic with Saturn in Capricorn? OR let us say, how does Mars in Aries have harmonic with Venus in Taurus?

Mars in Aries points to a first harmonic relationship of Mars with Aries (Yuti).Saturn in Capricorn too shows similar.Kshethra is first harmonic - showing the first kind of influence a planet is having with a sign.Now suppose the navamsha of Mars too falls in Aries(say Mars is at 3 degrees in Aries) -It means Mars has two kinds of relationship with sign Aries,from the same position in space.The second one being a ninth harmonic.
Rath: The word Harmonic at means
    1. Of or relating to harmony.
    2. Pleasing to the ear: harmonic orchestral effects.
    3. Characterized by harmony: a harmonic liturgical chant.
  1. Of or relating to harmonics.
  2. Integrated in nature.
    1. Any of a series of musical tones whose frequencies are integral multiples of the frequency of a fundamental tone.
    2. A tone produced on a stringed instrument by lightly touching an open or stopped vibrating string at a given fraction of its length so that both segments vibrate. Also called overtone, partial, partial tone.
  1. harmonics (used with a sing. verb) The theory or study of the physical properties and characteristics of musical sound.
  2. Physics. A wave whose frequency is a whole-number multiple of that of another.
Thus when used as an adjective it can mean integrated in nature, but you use the term as a noun when you say first harmonic and then it has to have a reference to a fundamental tone or base frequency or a base chart. Thats precisely what I am trying to say that the Rasi chart or D1 chart is the base or fundamental tone and the vargas are harmonics of this base tone. In Jyotish the mana is at five levels called pancha mana and the base tone has 12 frequencies form D1 to D12 and higher charts are harmonics of these base charts. These base charts from D2 to D12 are also derived from D1 and are, in a sence attached to the parent and in another sence, independant of the parent chart or D1. Just as a child, even when attached to its father is yet free and independant although retaining so many genes and name, so also the D1 chart which is created from the D12 of the conception chart is also free from it to a large extent.

Now let us suppose, if this Mars is at 28 degrees in Aries.Then it is in the Dashamsha of Saturn namely capricorn.This means apart from its placement and Yuti in Aries,Mars is having another relationship with the sign Capricorn.The frequency through which it relates to Capricorn is not similar to as it does with Aries.This is the tenth harmonic influence.
Rath: What is the base tone for the tenth harmonic to occur? How does this harmonic work? Is it the same as what we call Rasi Tulya Dasamsa or Dasamsa Tulya Rashi or is this something else? What is this used for? Parasara says profession. Can you give me an illustration as to what results you would expect from say...Rahu in Gemini in Rasi in Aquarius Dasamsa. Here Rahu is exalted in Rasi and in own dasamsa.

Rath: One more thing - am I supposed to know all the answers?

Pradeep:Sanjay ji,this is the most honest opinion.It is not at all possible that we know all the answers.But why should we prolifereate ideas when we ourselves are not sure.When doubts are arising,(it can be from me or a Guru like you),are we not responsible to take a Relook.
Rath: I teach something ONLY when I am 'bloody sure' of what I am talking (sorry for the adjective, but the extent of the surity had to be conveyed through words in English of which I have a rather limited vocabulary). I am constantly reading, learning and as software chaps say 'upgrading'. So in days to come you will hear a lot more about vargas. In fact I stalled the book only for this reason as I want to include every varga under the Sun in it.
Some of the most important lessons for me from my Guru has been -
  1. 'Don't touch the pen if you are not sure of what you are going to write', and later he taught,
  2. You can never be sure of what you are writing if your mana is not convinced, and the mana is only convinced if the mantra is within you.



Brihaspati Gayatri, Vishwamitra/Gaathina Rishi Rig Veda 6.62.6