From: Sanjay Rath
Date: Nov 7, 2005 10:25 PM
Subject: Re: [vedic-astrology] Re: Transits in Varga charts/Shri Sanjay Rath
To: vedic-astrology@yahoogroups.com
om namo bhagavate vasudevaya
Dear Pradeep
Comments under your notes:
Dear Pradeep
Comments under your notes:
Dear Sanjay Rath ji Namaste
Thanks for your mail and time.
Thanks for your mail and time.
Rath: Please don't thank me. Thank my Guru Kashinatha who gave me the knowledge and Jagannath who has given me some time in this planet.
Rath: What seems basic questions the very foundation and philosophy of creation, and thyen this is no longer basic.
>
> 1)Graha Drishti - Except for shadbala calculations, we generally go
> by house wise aspects(approximation of longitudinal aspect).For
> shadbala, we go by exact longitude and quantify.It is a known fact
> that for Bhava Phala Niroopana,aspects are used based on houses.
>
> Rath: Are house wise aspects approximation of longitudinal aspect? In that case we will be going against the various definitions of bhava. What happens if a planet is in one house in the rasi chart and then goes to another house in the bhava chart. What happens to its aspects? For example if Mars is in Lagna in Mesha in Rasi chart and then goes to 12th house in chalit or bhava chakra, will the 'special 8th house aspect in the bhava chart be to the 7th house or will it still be to Scorpio?
Pradeep:A planet has maximum influence (full influence) at 180 degrees from its placement.seven houses is the approximation.Whether it is Bhavachart or rashi chart - 30 degree boundaries forms basis for our approximation. Rath: That is provided we are going into calculation of the strengths of the drishti. And before we can do that let us first have a clarification of the following questions, questions that were raised in the year 1996 and 1997 in a List called Jyotish List in Majordomo when KN Rao went to look for books that he had in a trunk under his bed ... let us start from ground zero as my gurudeva always said.
>
> 1)Graha Drishti - Except for shadbala calculations, we generally go
> by house wise aspects(approximation of longitudinal aspect).For
> shadbala, we go by exact longitude and quantify.It is a known fact
> that for Bhava Phala Niroopana,aspects are used based on houses.
>
> Rath: Are house wise aspects approximation of longitudinal aspect? In that case we will be going against the various definitions of bhava. What happens if a planet is in one house in the rasi chart and then goes to another house in the bhava chart. What happens to its aspects? For example if Mars is in Lagna in Mesha in Rasi chart and then goes to 12th house in chalit or bhava chakra, will the 'special 8th house aspect in the bhava chart be to the 7th house or will it still be to Scorpio?
Pradeep:A planet has maximum influence (full influence) at 180 degrees from its placement.seven houses is the approximation.Whether it is Bhavachart or rashi chart - 30 degree boundaries forms basis for our approximation. Rath: That is provided we are going into calculation of the strengths of the drishti. And before we can do that let us first have a clarification of the following questions, questions that were raised in the year 1996 and 1997 in a List called Jyotish List in Majordomo when KN Rao went to look for books that he had in a trunk under his bed ... let us start from ground zero as my gurudeva always said.
Question 1: Why do we need Drishti? And how do we understand the working of Drishti in real life terms.
Question 2: What is the explicit difference between Graha Drishti and Rashi Drishti?
Question 3: Where can the graha NOT have any Drishti what-so-ever?
Question 4: Does Drishti cause sambandha (relationship) and if so how?
Question 5: and for how long shall this sambandha caused by Drishti work? Is this forever right from birth till death or is this temporary over a period of time. If temporary how do we determine the working time?
>
>
> 2)If a planet is aspecting a house without any placement - We can
> only find the Drishti Kendra ie the point of maximum influence.Mars
> aspecting Libra sign is a perfect example.This aspect of Mars is
> based on longitudinal dispositions of the sign in which Mars is
> placed as well as the aspected Sign.These are recorded/measured in
> terms of degrees - multiples of 30 degree signs.Please do not mix
> Navamsha,Dashamsha etc with this.Mars is aspecting the sign Libra
> which inturn is assuming roles of Navamsha,Dashamasha,Kshethra etc.
>
> Rath: I have not readthe previous posts so would not like to comment, but what I am making out of this is that if Mars is aspecting Tula rashi in the rashi chakra, then it aspects Tula rashi in the navamsa, dasamsa and all other divisional charts!!! Wow. I had never heard of this. Is this the suggestion Vijaydas ji.
Pradeep:It is not all other divisional charts.A planet is aspecting a sign.That sign can be a navamsha or dashamsha for a planet. Rath: Why are you limiting it now? If you say that a planet aspecting the sign in the rasi chart will aspect the same sign in all varga. Unless you are taking aspect to mean the exact 180 degree point only and not the whole sign.
>
[Points 3 to 8 deleted as they seem to be satisfactory so far]
>
>
> 2)If a planet is aspecting a house without any placement - We can
> only find the Drishti Kendra ie the point of maximum influence.Mars
> aspecting Libra sign is a perfect example.This aspect of Mars is
> based on longitudinal dispositions of the sign in which Mars is
> placed as well as the aspected Sign.These are recorded/measured in
> terms of degrees - multiples of 30 degree signs.Please do not mix
> Navamsha,Dashamsha etc with this.Mars is aspecting the sign Libra
> which inturn is assuming roles of Navamsha,Dashamasha,Kshethra etc.
>
> Rath: I have not readthe previous posts so would not like to comment, but what I am making out of this is that if Mars is aspecting Tula rashi in the rashi chakra, then it aspects Tula rashi in the navamsa, dasamsa and all other divisional charts!!! Wow. I had never heard of this. Is this the suggestion Vijaydas ji.
Pradeep:It is not all other divisional charts.A planet is aspecting a sign.That sign can be a navamsha or dashamsha for a planet. Rath: Why are you limiting it now? If you say that a planet aspecting the sign in the rasi chart will aspect the same sign in all varga. Unless you are taking aspect to mean the exact 180 degree point only and not the whole sign.
>
[Points 3 to 8 deleted as they seem to be satisfactory so far]
> Rath: Hang on! Harmonic is not the translation for Vargottama. I have heard this word being used too often in the west for almost anything including relationships!!!
Pradeep:In this example vargottama just coincided with and it has nothing to do with harmonics.Pls read the points without Vargottama.
Pradeep:In this example vargottama just coincided with and it has nothing to do with harmonics.Pls read the points without Vargottama.
Rath: OK ignoring these points 6, 7 and 8 as they do not seem to be relevant any more.
>
> 9)Difference between Point 7 and point 8 is - In point 7 it was a 1
> to 1 or first harmonic sambandha while in point 8 it is a ninth
> harmonic sambandha.This is the very purpose of harmonics.
>
> Rath: My understanding was that D1 does NOT have a harmonic with D9 instead it has a harmonic with D13 (if there is any D13 chart)...
Pradeep:I have understood D1 as explained by Parashara.Kshethra.Griha of a planet.From this kshethra it has harmonic inlfuences with other signs.
>
> 9)Difference between Point 7 and point 8 is - In point 7 it was a 1
> to 1 or first harmonic sambandha while in point 8 it is a ninth
> harmonic sambandha.This is the very purpose of harmonics.
>
> Rath: My understanding was that D1 does NOT have a harmonic with D9 instead it has a harmonic with D13 (if there is any D13 chart)...
Pradeep:I have understood D1 as explained by Parashara.Kshethra.Griha of a planet.From this kshethra it has harmonic inlfuences with other signs.
Rath: Are there signs in the sky? How are they created? from where did the rashi boundaries come? To my knowledge these signs are drawn solely on the basis of the movement of the Sun and the Sun alone is the master of all the rashi's. He then doles out duties to the grahas based on their abilities and nature and this is again based on proximity to power. Those close to him get kshetra (meaning areas of influence or governance or lordship like a feudal lord and not like the king) over signs adjoining his Leo/spouses (Moon) Cancer chamber.
Now coming to harmonics, how does lets say, Mars in Aries have harmonic with Saturn in Capricorn? OR let us say, how does Mars in Aries have harmonic with Venus in Taurus? Pleae explain so that I can understand what you mean by the use of the term harmonic.
>
> 10)When two planets are conjunct in a sign acting as Navamsha - it
> is infact showing the sambandha those planets are having with that
> particular sign.To find aspects above that can only be some kind of
> poetical imagination and has no rational at all(Cannot be reconciled
> with Parasharas aspectual rules).
>
> Rath: Who says so? How often have you found this to happen?? Is that the meaning of vargottama? The word Vargottama is from Varga and Uttama or the best. Now will Mercury in 27 deg Pices be in the best sign in rasi and navamsa? Is this understanding correct? Or is there another interpretation of this...have you seen my paper on navamsa.
Pradeep:It has nothing to do with Vargottama.As i have said the navamsha which i had chosen was vargottama(coincidence). Kindly explain when do two planets conjunct,astronomically in navamsha.
Rath: Planets can conjoin in navamsa only if we are allowed to draw a navamsa chart. In our discussion of basics have we arrived at that stage? Have we you and Narasimha reached that stage of debate/deliberation where it is convincing enough that a navamsa chart is allowed to be drawn? If you have reached that stage then I would like to ask a few questions.
>
> 11)If you are trying to bring furhter degrees - It is nothing but
> MOVEMENT from one NAVAMSHA to another NAVAMSHA.This has not been
> sanctioned by Sage and please don't make any such assumptions.This
> will create further problems similar to ''TWO ZODIACS concept''.
>
> Rath: What further degrees? Not clear about the debate. Can you give me the references or the mail links.
Pradeep:Eg.Gemini Navamsha within Aries rashi is related to Gemini sign. If we find degrees again within Gemini sign to understand the same navamsha - we are talking about further degrees. Or in other words moving from one navamsha to another. Rath: A planet lets say Mars in Gemini navamsa in Aries sign brings the influence of Mars in Gemini in the rasi chart based on "Rasi tulya Navamsa principle".
>
> 11)If you are trying to bring furhter degrees - It is nothing but
> MOVEMENT from one NAVAMSHA to another NAVAMSHA.This has not been
> sanctioned by Sage and please don't make any such assumptions.This
> will create further problems similar to ''TWO ZODIACS concept''.
>
> Rath: What further degrees? Not clear about the debate. Can you give me the references or the mail links.
Pradeep:Eg.Gemini Navamsha within Aries rashi is related to Gemini sign. If we find degrees again within Gemini sign to understand the same navamsha - we are talking about further degrees. Or in other words moving from one navamsha to another. Rath: A planet lets say Mars in Gemini navamsa in Aries sign brings the influence of Mars in Gemini in the rasi chart based on "Rasi tulya Navamsa principle".
When we talk of degrees within the Gemini navamsa i.e. within 6.40' to 10.00' of Aries, then we are talking of fines divisions and this will depend on the even finer division talked about. Lets day we break thisinto another nine parts, then this becomes D81 or if this part is broken into 12 parts then we are talking about D108. Degrees within a navamsa do not explain the nature of the navamsa but they do explain even finer things about the bodies contained in these parts.
Thanks a lot again for your time.But my doubts are very simple and will post them as a seperate mail.Just 2 or 3 simple questions. Rath: My pleasure. I will try but it is you who is leading everyone to enlightenment in jyotish. One more thing - am I supposed to know all the answers? Is it also possible that there are things none of us in this list know and perhaps no living human beign today is aware of. If so, how do we propose to deal with that? Can we live with this knowing that we don't know? Kind regds Pradeep
Thanks a lot again for your time.But my doubts are very simple and will post them as a seperate mail.Just 2 or 3 simple questions. Rath: My pleasure. I will try but it is you who is leading everyone to enlightenment in jyotish. One more thing - am I supposed to know all the answers? Is it also possible that there are things none of us in this list know and perhaps no living human beign today is aware of. If so, how do we propose to deal with that? Can we live with this knowing that we don't know? Kind regds Pradeep
With best wishes and warm regards,
Sanjay Rath
* * *
Sri Jagannath Center®
15B Gangaram Hospital Road
New Delhi 110060, India
http://srath.com , +91-11-25717162
Sanjay Rath
* * *
Sri Jagannath Center®
15B Gangaram Hospital Road
New Delhi 110060, India
http://srath.com , +91-11-25717162
